deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #26 of 40: Robin Russell (rrussell8) Fri 28 Jul 06 10:22
    
Exactly, that is where I was heading with the dialogue earlier.
However, I forgot to do the necessary research.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #27 of 40: from BRYAN MILLER (tnf) Sat 29 Jul 06 09:15
    


Bryan Miller writes:


> Yeah, the whole Jack straw = Shannon thing is one os those revisions to my
> theory i have changed my mind about. I think they are two different people
> with very similar circumstances and ways of thinking. However, it does seem
> to me that Jack is the more moral of the two. And this creates a realistic
> contrast.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #28 of 40: Robin Russell (rrussell8) Mon 31 Jul 06 10:29
    
Back in '72 Weir sang the whole thing, with Phil and sometimes Phil
and Jerry harmonising.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #29 of 40: Alex Allan (alexallan) Mon 24 Sep 07 03:15
    
(Copied from another thread) A Bob Weir interview in Uncut magazine of
May 2007 gives more on the "Of Mice And Men" theme:

"I don’t watch much TV, but one night I was home, it was late, and an
old version of Steinbeck’s Of Mice And Men came on. I was mesmerised
[sic]. We were coming out of the Workingman’s Dead phase, and Hunter
had this lyric. I grabbed it, and we came with a little sketch of
heartland Americana, a balled about two ne’er-do-wells. It was
patterned on Of Mice And Men, but we tried to put a twist or two on it.
Same story, different context."

[Incidentally, I now work for Jack Straw at the (British) Ministry of
Justice]
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #30 of 40: David Gans (tnf) Mon 24 Sep 07 09:04
    
Watch yer back :^)
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #31 of 40: David Dodd (ddodd) Wed 26 Sep 07 14:10
    
That gets back to that "cut his buddy down" line, with its ambiguity.
But yes, watch yer back at all times!
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #32 of 40: David Dodd (ddodd) Fri 18 Apr 08 11:45
    
Posted on behalf of Peter Johnson:

An Historical observation.

There ain't a place a man can hide, Shannon, will keep him from the
sun 


I do not remember the exact text of the reference but you can find it
in the Time/Life book series on the old west.  In the volume about "The
Gunfoghters".  Butch Cassidy and the Hole in the wall gang robbed a
train that had money belonging to an eastern newspaper magnate,
possibly the Boston sun or the Chicago sun, I am  not really sure
which.. The "paper" then put up a substantial reward for the capture of
the hole in the wall gang and then hired the Pinkerton detective
agency to track them down and capture them.  The published exploits of
the Pinkertons and the hole in the wall gang increased the circulation
of the paper so much that he may have hired the pinkertons to track
down other outlaws to further increase or maintain circulation of the
paper. The Pinkertons were kept on the payroll of the Sun for at least
two years until Butch and Sundance went to Bolivia.  So I think that
the above line is in reference to either the Chicago Sun 0r The Boston
Sun.

Peter Johnson
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #33 of 40: David Gans (tnf) Sat 19 Apr 08 10:52
    
That's a bit of a stretch, but interesting to contemplate.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #34 of 40: coal will turn to gray (comet) Sun 20 Apr 08 21:43
    
"keep him from the sun" is an odd construction, possibly a cryptical
envelopment.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #35 of 40: Marked from the Day That I was Born (ssol) Wed 23 Apr 08 04:29
    
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. According to Hunter the story is
actually about two down and outers in the depression era.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #36 of 40: David Dodd (ddodd) Wed 23 Apr 08 07:57
    
And yet, Hunter himself has repeatedly weighed in on the idea that
regardless of what HE thinks (knows) the song to "be about," there are
as many other potential meanings as there are listeners, and that is
kind of the point of this entire deadsongs.vue conference! I personally
love the wildest of interpretations or perceived references, because
it shows up the whole idea of how we create or assign meaning, not just
to Dead lyrics, but to all art, and, ultimately, to everything in our
lives. 
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #37 of 40: William Jason Baggett (billybaggs) Thu 24 Apr 08 06:53
    
"there are as many other potential meanings as there are listeners"

Word...That's one of my favorite things about dead lyrics: they are so
open to interpretation.  It's been really interesting to me to have
the songs evolve in my own mind over the years.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #38 of 40: Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Thu 24 Apr 08 07:49
    
And that's why music videos are problematic.  They tend to delimit our
imagination about songs.
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #39 of 40: William Jason Baggett (billybaggs) Thu 24 Apr 08 08:23
    
Does anyone still watch music videos?
  
deadsongs.vue.110 : Jack Straw
permalink #40 of 40: Robin Russell (rrussell8) Fri 4 Jul 14 16:46
    
GD Comix can probably limit imagination more than music vids. Or maybe
they become the definitive texts?

From Jack Kerouac's On the Road:

"'It's just that I love boxcars and I love to read the names on them
like Missouri Pacific, Great Northern, Rock Island Line. By Gad, Major,
if I could tell you everything that happened to me hitching here.'"
(Sal expounding on the joys of the road compared to those of sipping
vintage French wine at p. 42 Penguin paperback edition)
  



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