Melinda Belleville (mellobelle) Wed 24 Sep 03 09:38
Well, most of it doesn't make sense to me. And if I keep hearing something in the lyrics that doesn't make sense in the context of what else I'm hearing, I take a visit over to David Dodd's site and read the lyrics. The surreality of the translated lyrics puts them in the same realm with the sillyness of Phish's lyrics. Yes, I find the phonetic interpretations interesting enough and amusing in many cases, but I'd want to know what is really trying to be said. <slipped by xian>
David Dodd (ddodd) Thu 25 Sep 03 11:08
To allow this topic to drift even further, I think of the Beatles' Italian foray on Abbey Road, which has always been a pleasant little oasis of not having to listen for meaning, just listening to the music, in the middle of all the stuff about Mr. Mustard and Polythene Pam.
Christian Crumlish (xian) Fri 26 Sep 03 10:32
Right, but it's not Italian, though. It's a kind of imaginary Mediterranean esperanto-esque jargon, no? Or is it real Italian?
David Dodd (ddodd) Mon 29 Sep 03 13:41
I wonder! Let me go poke around on some Beatles sites. Also: side note. Elia Kazan passed away yesterday. I mention him here because he directed On the Waterfront--a possible source for the character of August West.
Marked from the Day That I was Born (ssol) Mon 29 Sep 03 14:32
Ooooh... yes! Adios, Elia K. A brave fellow in his profession and politics.Wasn't he one of the guys that stood up to the McCarthy Inquisition? Fwiw, my limited understanding of Italian and Spanish makes me think that that Beatles' lyrical fumferrol was Quando Mucho Nonsensico Meo Latinate Laminate con Vinyl Groovea, Mea Culpa Mucho.
David Dodd (ddodd) Mon 29 Sep 03 15:14
Sun King, Italian lyrics Here comes the sun king Here comes the sun king Everybody's laughing Everybody's happy Here comes the sun king Quando paramucho mi amore de felice carathon Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol Questo abrigado tantamucho que canite carousel as quoted on numerous websites...anyone know enough Italian to vouch for this?
AZanimal (zepezauer) Mon 29 Sep 03 16:33
driftage . . . > Adios, Elia K. A brave fellow in his profession and politics.Wasn't he one of the guys that stood up to the McCarthy Inquisition? You have the right context, but it was actually just the opposite: he rather infamously caved and named names. There was a controversy many years later when he was presented with a Lifetime Achievement Oscar, many felt it was inappropriate under the circumstances. Don't know much Italian, but that looks like real words (or some of them anyway) strung together semi-randomly. The middle line, e.g., is something like "The world of photographers, my love, (something) green umbrella".
Marked from the Day That I was Born (ssol) Tue 30 Sep 03 07:24
Thanks for the reminder on Kazan. Now I remember the controversy. Anyhow, pardon the drift.
David Dodd (ddodd) Tue 30 Sep 03 09:37
Yes, guilty of driftage as charged.
Marked from the Day That I was Born (ssol) Thu 2 Oct 03 08:31
I stand ready for the Gallow Rope. Make it quick and Gopod hav mercy on all our souls.
David Gans (tnf) Sat 4 Oct 03 08:26
I think the "Italian" in "King" is intended to be gibberish. For example, I always saw the last line as "Cuesto abrigado tantamucho que can eat it carousel."
Mary Eisenhart (marye) Sat 4 Oct 03 14:11
I hear "carousel" as a heavily Castilian "corazon," myself, but many years back ISTR an official lyric sheet (Beatles songbook?) in which the whole bit was quite clearly gibberish.
Robin Russell (rrussell8) Tue 9 Mar 04 07:41
Getting back to the docks, I'd be interested in hearing how Well dwellers interpret this couplet: "Everyone said I'd come to no good, I knew I would Pearly, believe them" In the versions that I've heard, the "Pearly, believe them" comes over as an imprecation rather than as a stoic observation in the sense of "unfortunately, Pearly believed them, which was a contributing factor to our current estrangement". In my reading, it is more "listen to them, Pearly, they are right and you'll do yourself no good hanging around with the likes of me". Despite this advice, Pearly stays true (at least in the mind of August West), inspiring August's hope for the future and his dreams of getting his life on to a new track (in sh'allah). Happy Trails
David Dodd (ddodd) Tue 9 Mar 04 16:57
Always wondered about this, too!
Christian Crumlish (xian) Mon 3 May 04 10:13
No, I hear it: Everyone said I'd come to no good. I knew I would. Pearly believed them. That is, they said he would come to no good, and Pearly believed them, while he privately also knew it was true?
Alex Allan (alexallan) Tue 4 May 04 21:24
I think xian is right (it is "believed" not "believe") In "Box Of Rain" Robert Hunter lays it out as Everyone said I'd come to no good I knew I would Pearly believed **them** [with "them" in italics]
ex-ee-en (xian) Wed 5 May 04 09:19
so that implies "I knew I would [come to *some* good but] / Pearly believed them"
Robin Russell (rrussell8) Wed 5 May 04 12:21
Is there something going on here between the "Box of Rain" Hunter versions and the Ice Nine versions that are posted at the start of each of these threads as the text for the discussion? There seem to be a number of discrepancies cropping up. Are they just typos from the transcriptions or are the Ice Nine "as sung" vs the Hunter "as written"? It seems from the various sources that Garcia was not averse to messing with Hunter's lyrics, whether in the interests of singability, brevity or enhanced ambiguity.
David Dodd (ddodd) Thu 6 May 04 09:05
Right. You find these discrepancies constantly between as-published Ice Nine, as-published Box of Rain, as-sung anywhere anytime, and as-transcribed for the teleprompter via Hunter. I doubt we'll ever see anything carved in stone, and even those items carved in stone wear in the rain, scale in the thaws...
Robin Russell (rrussell8) Fri 7 May 04 05:57
I think it is healthy that the songs vibrate with enigmas, contradictions, mysteries and ambiguities. Note that, with this post, Wharf Rat surges past Brown Eyed Women in the traffic magnet stakes. I was listening to the 22 May 77 Pembroke Pines Wharf Rat>Terrapin>Dew on DP#3 yesterday, an experience that is very hard to beat.
Alex Allan (alexallan) Sat 8 May 04 02:55
Some of the discrepancies are typos that we're trying to correct. But the more interesting ones are ambiguities/second thoughts/variations etc.
Robin Russell (rrussell8) Mon 21 Jun 04 13:14
Eddie Free Joe <mz> found this fantastic reference and posted in the Media Mentions board: Historical Plaque Dedicated In 1837 a runaway slave named Augustus West arrived in the Greenfield area and along with local farmer Alexander Beatty, authored a story that has become a part of both the area's and the nation's history. To raise money to purchase his own land, West and Beatty devised a scheme to travel back south, sell West back into slavery, help him escape and then split the profits. On at least three documented occasions the two employed this money making scam and their story became the basis for a 1971 Hollywood film, The Skin Game, starring James Gardner and Louis Gossett, Jr. West used his profits to purchase land near the intersection of Bonner and Barrett Roads in Fayette County. Some distance from the road he built a "mansion" and the dirt road leading up to his front door became known as Abolition Lane. In the years that followed, at least twelve cabins were constructed on West's land and these became temporary residences for other runaway slaves who needed a place to live and work as they stole their way further north to freedom. Some of these folks chose to remain in the area thus adding the very familiar surnames of Ford, Rickman, Cannon and others to our community's list of historical families. According to a descendent of August West, Joyce Saulsberry-Dennis (firstname.lastname@example.org), the Cannon family married into the West family and today it is the Cannons who remain Greenfield's connection to this part of our history. Much of what we know today about the property of August West came as the result of the work of Washington Court House history teacher, Paul LaRue and many of his students. For a number of years LaRue and his students have been conducting archeological surveys of the property and tracing the involvement of it and other properties in the area's Underground Railroad activities. They have also been successful in getting the federal government involved and an even more in-depth study is underway. In 2003 the Ohio Bicentennial Committee was looking for twenty instances of Ohio's involvement in the Underground Railroad to honor with an official historical marker. The story and efforts of August West was chosen to be honored and with the coordination of the Greenfield Historical Society and the City of Greenfield, a site next to the Chapel in the Greenfield Cemetery was selected. On Saturday, December 20, 2003 members of the community, the historical society and the Cannon family met to unveil and dedicate the marker honoring August West. Following the unveiling a ceremony was held at the Traveler's Rest where Judge James Cannon, Paul LaRue, Jim Beatty and Mayor Lanny Bryant thanked all those involved in making this acknowledgement and dedication a reality. The site is http://www.highland-ohio.com/august%20west%20dedication.htm
David Dodd (ddodd) Tue 22 Jun 04 14:03
Wow! That's fabulous! I remember seeing The Skin Game at a movie theater in Reno while my parents were gambling, and thinking it was the funniest movie I ever saw. I'm wondering now if the character has that name--time to go check IMDB.
Robin Russell (rrussell8) Wed 23 Jun 04 05:40
The release date of the movie is interesting as well.
Lightning in a Box (unkljohn) Sat 29 Apr 06 16:59
I came across this today while I was searching for something else. The Wharf Rat By Fitz-James O'Brien I. The wharf is silent and black, and motionless lie the the ships; The ebb-tide sucks at the piles with its cold and slimy lips; And down through the tortuous lane a sailor comes singing along, And a girl in the Gallipagos isles is the burden of his song. II. Behind the white cotton bales a figure is crouching low; It listens with eager ears, as the straggling footsteps go. It follows the singing sailor, Stealing upon his track, And when he reaches the river-side, the wharf rat's at his back. III. A man is missing next day, and a paragraph tells the fact; But the way he went, or the road he took, will never, never be be tracked! For the lips of the tide are dumb, and it keeps such secrets well, And the fate of the singing sailor boy the wharf rat alone can tell.
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