Are We Really? (really) Wed 17 Jan 01 16:35
Ok...but it ain't like live Gunafa!
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 17 Jan 01 19:52
When's the next webcast? Let's get a plan...!
Gary Danner (danner) Thu 18 Jan 01 03:58
Next webcast will be Wed, 24.1.01, 9p.m. CET. We are off to the Autobahn in a couple of minutes, to be at "14. Stuttgarter Filmwinter - Festival for expanded media". We will log in again when we are set up at the hotel!
Are We Really? (really) Thu 18 Jan 01 09:45
What kind of car do you drive on th Autobahn and how fast do you drive it? How many processors does the car have? What CDs do you play while driving? Do you use a GPS digital map to determine where you are driving?
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 18 Jan 01 10:02
We are driving on the Autobahn In front of us is a wide valley The sun is shining with glittering rays The driving strip is a grey track White stripes, green edge Now we're switching the radio on From the speaker it sounds:
Elisa Rose (gunafa) Thu 18 Jan 01 11:25
We are not driving on the Autobahn any more, but arrived at the festival. The sun was shining with glittering rays, its dark now and the projectors are switched on soon hopefully. tell you more about the southern excursion tomorrow. womder where David is- hope he didnt miss the webcast-live+conf last nite?!
David Hudson (davidhudson) Thu 18 Jan 01 13:45
Here I am, Elisa! Yes, unfortunately, sadly, ridiculously, I missed the live webcast last night. Racing against a deadline, by the time I logged on, I discovered that I'd just plain checked email too late, which is why I must catch the one on the 24th! Everybody seems to have had a blast. Have to point out, though, from your email alert just one more fun overlap with the Bruce Sterling topic: -- vinyl DAVE re-released on Gigolo Techno cult piece by Station Rose's composer Gary Danner re-released on DJ Hell's label International DeeJay Gigolos. Played in every club and on the early Love Parades, the original "DAVE" from 1992 is out again, with remixes by HAL9000 and Dopplereffekt. A good choice for your electronic music collection. With the german voice of HAL9000 of Kubrick´s "2001 Space Odyssey" on the original, the remixes come up with the english voice now. Originally scheduled to be released end of 2000, with a few little production delays this vinyl landed in the right year: 2001. http://www.gigolo-records.de -- "i think not working in an advertizing agency these days and not producing cooperate design for commerce is already political." Excellent point, Elisa. Not that there aren't fine people to be found in ad agencies or that there isn't terrific work being done in corporate design, of course, but yes, you two have made your choices clear. Which could lead us to: How's Stuttgart? The schedule looks great, but so far, I can only find this site for the festivities: http://www.filmwinter.de Which is nice, but I can't seem to get past the nifty Flash ball thingy. "Its really a problem, because itsimportant to hear artiststalk about art, and let not only curators and journalists describe a movement. But do you see a solution on that?" I actually think that, so far, the Net has gone a long way -- well, *some* way -- towards remedying that, yes. Net.artists in particular, of course, have been pretty interested in the last several years in communicating with each other online, not only here in the conference Are We Really mentioned, but also on mailing lists like Rhizome Raw, 7-11, American Express and a few others. I have to admit I'm not as tuned into those as I was in the past because they were very, very active -- which is a great, positive sign. The artists on those lists didn't talk to each other the way theorists, journalists and the like did, naturally. ASCII was their most obvious material and a lot of fun was had there, but they'd also simply post URLs without comment, etc. But Are We Really's points about RealAudio/RealVideo bring up, I think, an important difference between what most of those artists were/are doing and what you're doing. Please jump up and object if I'm completely off here, which is very likely, but it seems to me that your art really leans much more towards the immersive. It's very much about the experience, the explosively gunafa, being there, live. And you're on the forefront in experimenting with ways to make that possible, with getting as much of that experience across with whatever means are available. It seems that one of your most important tools, too, would be bandwidth. Combine that with what you're talking about, Gary, i.e., leaving the racks of samplers, etc., on the shelves and creating more and more of your music on your HD, and it looks like you're heading toward transmitting bigger and bigger rooms from smaller and smaller boxes.
Gary Danner (danner) Thu 18 Jan 01 15:47
I´d like to answer about the music side here. I am not heading towards more bandwidth. Transmitting 8bit mono files does not use too much width; and for me that´s not a compromise. I like the trashy bootleg-type sound quality that is transmitted. My aim is certainly not to improve sound quality when webcasting; for me the major thing to listen to hi-quality sound still is over headphones, from CD or live from a professional P.A. By the way, most plug-ins today (which come as an addition to your sequencing software) try to emulate this lo fi thing, the most popular ones being named "fuzz pro", "grungelizer" etc.
Elisa Rose (gunafa) Fri 19 Jan 01 03:00
Concerning the programm in Stuttgart, there is a webcam/realvideo on the website, where you can see a bit of the place here. So far we had interesting conversations with people from other festivals, and with friends from Geert Lovink and Amsterdam. It can be stimulating to go to a festival (and not perform), but talk to others. When we perform, we are too preoccupied to keep much conversation. So this version now is not bad. Coming back to bandwith - What Gary said concerning the sound, he is right. he doesnt need that much more bandwith. but for visuals this is different. I need much more of it! in the next 2 years realvideo will become a full screen experience, so much bandwith will be needed. and concerning "explosively gunafa, being there, live" - this is a very important point in our art. The live-moment is the most intense. it is always in the center, besides products, art installations,... this goes for offline and online. you were right with your opinion.
David Hudson (davidhudson) Sun 21 Jan 01 06:48
"Fuzz Pro" and "Grungelizer" would make for great fashion plug-ins, too, wouldn't they? <g> So I was going over your conversation with Bazon Brock this weekend, and before asking about that, I think we should note for all the readers who don't live in Germany and may not know him: Bazon Brock teaches aesthetics at the University in Wuppertal and he's quite a media figure around these parts. Not only does he appear in the papers and on TV, discussing the sort of things you'd expect an aesthetics prof to discuss, but he also performs himself. Brief personal aside (feel free to skip over it <g>): In the mid-to-late 80s, I was part of a performance group called minimal club, and one of those years, we staged an opera festival. 3 groups, 3 performances rotating for a week or so. Besides minimal club, there was Die Tödliche Doris and: Bazon Brock. His set was pretty simple, recalling a study, and his performance primariy consisted of his talking directly to the audience while smearing a light cream over a globe. Years later, of course, Net fever would hit Europe, and he was often called on for his perspective, and I've always appreciated his attempts to be more than just another talking head on the television screen. He's been featured in documentaries, for example, that experiment with the form of the video doc in ways that reflect the subject matter at hand. All this is to say that, of all your conversations in _private://public_, I was particularly interested in this one. Many, many ideas are floated in that conversation, but for the sake of our talk here, let me do him and the both of you a slight disservice and focus on one, and in the process, probably oversimplify it a bit. Bazon Brock seems to be concentrating on the idea of technology as a means of resurrection. He's very explicit about that, consciously referring to Christian and other theologies. By means of electronic media, we can "resurrect" moments from the past, and even, to a certain extent, the dead. A concrete example: he briefly refers to work being done on a virtual Marlene Dietrich -- this is an actual project, btw, her family is involved, etc. So, for him, cyberspace is indeed a *space*, a place very much like heaven (again, he's explicit about this) where the past and present coexist for all "eternity" (another term that comes up again and again). What's not mentioned, though, is the practical and very real concern that digital media are in fact not eternal. Digital recordings (audio, video, text, code) do in fact decay. The only way to keep them indefinitely is to periodically copy them anew. This may bring up questions, though, of what to archive, or more bluntly, what's worth copying again and again so that it'll be around for future generations. So let me ask an odd and maybe uncomfortable sort of question. First, is this a concern at all for you as artists? Second, of all your performances, recordings, stored images, books, interviews, webcasts, etc., would you have a particular Station Rose Collection in mind, the Essential Station Rose, that you would want to leave behind?
Gary Danner (danner) Sun 21 Jan 01 14:10
archiving - horror ! But sometimes you have to do it. For example, "recording" a track to be released on a CD is nothing else than "archiving" your concepts in a certain format, different to playing live. Playing live is more playing in the true sense of the word, experimenting in front of an audience. Station Rose Collection - it should contain at least every product, every composition that was for sale once, or still is. I not only once erased music during the years, because a) that stuff did not interest me any more, I felt it to be a wrong direction, or b) I could not afford new tape/CDs/DATs to record new material, so the old stuff had to bite the dust.
Elisa Rose (gunafa) Sun 21 Jan 01 17:14
The only way to keep them indefinitely is to periodically copy them anew- is right. in the best case this happens to the material, like in a webcast moment. if not, it will not be copied for some time. is this a concern at all for you as artists? yes, it is. but it depends on a certain time, that something gets uploaded/copied. Second, of all your performances, recordings, stored images, books, interviews, webcasts, etc., would you have a particular Station Rose Collection in mind, the Essential Station Rose, that you would want to leave behind? it should contain at least every product, right. the question here is, what can be defined as a Station Rose product? I think, a performance, maybe only performed once, is a product, and a 1 hour broasdcast on TV, as well as what as our webcasts. or should it be a cd, vinly, cdrom, DVD, pieces of art like prints, light boxes?
David Hudson (davidhudson) Mon 22 Jan 01 13:22
We've turned a corner with the weekend, so I want to start asking you about the future, but first, one more about the present. An obvious one; I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, but I for one would really like to know: What's a typical day like for Station Rose? Is there such a thing as a typical day for you two? If you don't mind, tell us a bit about where you live, what it looks like... I picture you practically living in the studio, experimenting, jamming nonstop. How far off is that picture?
Gary Danner (danner) Mon 22 Jan 01 15:59
We live in a sort of penthouse on top of a 16-floor building, with big glass windows, and a quite big terrace on one side. The building was planned by an Italian architect in the late 6Ts, and was finished in 1972. On a clear day you can see for miles to the north-west, where the terrace is heading. When the wind is not blowing too fiercely, it is great to spend most of the day out there, with the telephones and powerbooks set up. Only restriction is loudness - you simply have to turn down the volume after 10p.m. a bit, or use headphones. But people are quite tolerant ;-) Well, living in the studio ... we try to separate between the multimedia/gunafa thing happening in the studio (or the extended studio outside in summer & spring), and chilling out upstairs. Because besides the "studio floor" there is one more upstairs, linked by a staircase. Upstairs is private. That means reading, meditating, yoga, sleeping, bathing, watching videos and tv, plus other recreational subversive activities for adult digital bohemians.
Are We Really? (really) Mon 22 Jan 01 16:04
What? No Sex!
Elisa Rose (gunafa) Tue 23 Jan 01 03:46
Much Sex !! at home & on the road. Get the difference between private and public here: sex is our intimate topic, no voyeurs allowed. This is the private section, one of our best kept secrets. We wont tell you our favourite positions. As we are much in the public, this is out of that. (Although we thought about maybe using some sex-scenes for artproduction one day later.) But so far we are not public here. "What's a typical day like for Station Rose? Is there such a thing as a typical day for you two? David, I want to answer your question now. a typical day - it depends if we are in Frankfurt or travelling. Lets say half of the year we are on voyages, so this would be the pattern "typical day on the road". Meaning waking up in a hotel, going somewhere to either perform, setting up an installation or talking about art. It means getting to know many (new) people, and maybe being in the public for more than 10 hours a day. It has to do a lot with contacts, new situations,... Version 2 is the pattern "typical day @home". This involves practically living in the studio, experimenting, jamming nonstop. Diving deeply into the field of media art, of soundz and moving images. This composing can be seen as one of the most intense parts of our live (besides performing or sex). But I am sorry to say here, that we are not free to do only composing. There is quite some organizing included in a daily schedule. Takes hours each day. No way to escape that most of the time. Quite often we get exhausted with it. So what we try to do with this experience - seperate between the creative hours and the organisational ones.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 23 Jan 01 05:34
You're both so very focused!
Are We Really? (really) Tue 23 Jan 01 10:20
I will second that statement. Whenever I am arround Station Rose physically, I note that they remain immersed in Gunafa techno-think the entire time.
David Hudson (davidhudson) Tue 23 Jan 01 11:33
Yes, and even better, not in an introverted way at all, but radiant and contagiously enthusiastic! We should probably mention for some of those who live in the States and beyond who usually think of Frankfurt as primarily a banking town... well, yes, it is, but there's also much, much more going on. Besides a few gorgeous old neighborhoods, Frankfurt can offer some pretty nifty clubbing and gallery-hopping. And Gary and Elisa seem to know everyone. Let me ask: Who are you listening to, whose work are you keeping an eye on, what sort of trends do you think might be heading our way, either in the clubs, on CD and/or MP3, in the galleries or via a URL? Who or what do you think we might be reading about in de:Bug, Spex -- or some other zine/paper, online or off you might prefer?
Cousin Kevin (danner) Tue 23 Jan 01 13:09
Frankfurt is a great town. It´s not Vienna, not Paris, Londinium or Prag. But it is Frankfurt. And Frankfurt, strange city it is, is not like any other. Hessians, as you know, were alway affordable. Nowadays, it´s different, but I still don´t know how, and in which ways exactly. But it´s differnt. It´s not a cultural town, like Vienna. But we live in the digital times. So who needs a metropole? Remember that Techno was not a metropolitan thing, but it emerged from Detroit, Frankfurt or Sheffield. Just writing off me head, coming back to you, David ...
Gary Danner (danner) Wed 24 Jan 01 05:05
At the moment I am listening to lots of CDs by Frankfurt-based label <mille plateaux>, which Achim, the head of the label, gave us as Xmas present. My favorites: "snd - stdio", "met@music force inc. sampler" and "kid 606 - ps i love you". Then also "the kosmik kommando - laptop dancing". Trend in music: I think live webcasting will be big in the future. Generally I think that "clicks & cuts", "clickhouse" or whatever you may call it (music created on harddiscs, with noisy, highpitched samples etc.) will be the future in electronic dance music. Multimedia will conquer the clubs in the near future, at last. There is a trend towards VJs even today; that´s a start, it has to become tighter between sounds and visuals.
Elisa Rose (gunafa) Wed 24 Jan 01 07:34
first of all I try to answer Are We really and Jon on: "being focused" and "immersed in Gunafa techno-think". isnt that an almost normal behaviour for a professional artist? and, arent collegues like that, too? the output would become diletantic, when not focused. since the net and digital production tools are here, for sure there is not less, but more to do. And David, a few statements to "Frankfurt as primarily a banking town... well, yes, it is, but there's also much, much more going on. Besides a few gorgeous old neighborhoods, Frankfurt can offer some pretty nifty clubbing and gallery-hopping." frankfurt first of all is a very aggressive place with sometimes really rude manners. It is the center of money, and it behaves like that. money seems to legalize agression and rudeness totally. we often dont know why we stay here, but we think it makes us concentrated to see the dark and dirty side of capitalsim regularily. not many people can stand that, and left for Berlin, as an example. as we do not have to live here on a daily basis, our travels give enough distance in between. when you compared frankfurt with san francisco years ago, it was so different. the cold hearted offline frankfurt versus the warm-hearted online SF, you could say. today the two are almost the same, as only commerce counts and calcul. Btw, I just read a book review in telepolis by tilman baumgaertel , who I think is uninformed, unprecise and impolite here <http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/buch/4731/1.html>. the review is on "Cyberville" a book by "Echo"-founder Stacy Horn. tilman starts his slam with a bravo on new york and a bad attack on san francisco and espacially on the Well. He seems to have the image of the almost naive and hippylike west-coast. I really recommend him to take a trip to SF and getting an update on how the city has become cooperate. Eric Kluitenberg was doing a very good lecture on the topic SF and e-economy in stuttgart a few days ago. Here comes my statemnt to: "Who are you listening to, whose work are you keeping an eye on, what sort of trends do you think might be heading our way, either in the clubs, on CD and/or MP3, in the galleries or via a URL? I try to find the time to take a look at what is labeled netart, and to check out other webcasts as well. I am reading art magazines, but not regularily. Frankfurt is not that strong in art, there are not that many places to go and see exhibitions. I do it in other places, on a trip. Frankfurter Kunstverein was starting with a new director not long ago, and with lots of energy. Now not much is happening there, which is a pity. I really hope this will change again, cause it became some sort of meeting point. There are 2 new galleries I want to check out soon. basically I changed my opinion on the development of the art scene. In the mid 90ies I thought that the net would make galleries and museums more or less obsolete. i was wrong. it went into the other direction, and art shows are stronger again. We are doing artproduction now again, after some yerars of a pause. All in all I see a conservative touch in both the music and the art scene, which is a newer trend. but I also think that a big r-evolution which we thought would happen 92, is still not here, but for sure on the way. it must be about multimedia, sounds and visuals. mp3 and webcasting is great. never before in history something like that had happened. so the only question unsolved is how to get money out of it. i do not think it is good if everything on the net is for free. because for free here means only for the consumer-side. for the producers today this means either spending much time without getting any money for a netproject, or doing classical products with it, what we do, or having someone to pay for an online project, which i think is very difficult today. A worst case scenario would be only having ad agencies left to do webcasts in 10years or so. I am sure this will not happen, but the big amount of time needed for good online projects together with the right amount of budget will become a major topic. in the book we talk about that with Geert Lovink. What is your opinion on that? and to "de:Bug, Spex -- or some other zine/paper, online or off you might prefer?2 both de:Bug and Spex should be informed better. de:bug concentrates too much on Berlin, and there closer neighbourhood. They should become more open-minded. or maybe they get sold to a major, and then they would be even less informed than they are today. spex needs to get a new identity. And they are sold already. i think online places, mailing lists like rohrpost, nettime or rhizome are modern, cause they let people present themselves, which gives a broader perspective. announcement: WEBACST 130 tonite/toady 9pm CET at <http://www.stationrose.com> together with inkwell. we will be actice in both areas
Station Rose (gunafa) Wed 24 Jan 01 12:04
we are HERE, started 5min ago. shall be in the conf and in the webcast! looking forward to see you here
David Hudson (davidhudson) Wed 24 Jan 01 12:06
It's starting... elongating, building.. and there's Elisa's voice: Hi!
David Hudson (davidhudson) Wed 24 Jan 01 12:08
Mad blue cows! Look, but don't eat...
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