The WELL: inkwell.vue.126: John M. Ford: The Last Hot Time

#74: It would have made more sense over tea (wren) Mon 30 Oct 06 08:06

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:06:00 PST

Two articles: the first is about the memorial in Minneapolis, the second about the memorial in London:

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/15868982.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wormseyeview/story/0,,1929491,00.html [Read entire topic]

#73: Dan Guy (dfowlkes) Fri 29 Sep 06 15:19

Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:19:00 PDT

[Read entire topic]

#72: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Wed 27 Sep 06 15:16

Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:16:00 PDT

That's sad news. I'm sorry to hear it, wren. [Read entire topic]

#71: It would have made more sense over tea (wren) Mon 25 Sep 06 07:15

Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:15:00 PDT

I'm sorry to do this, and not sure if this is the right way to do it, but John M. Ford died this morning. There is a little more information at www.nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/, but everyone is stunned. Those who knew him knew that Mike's health was never good, but it's still a shock. [Read entire topic]

#70: John M. Ford (johnmford) Fri 2 Nov 01 22:02

Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:02:00 PST

Got way behind here, sorry.

For poetry as *real* sf/fantasy, I suppose I*d look at the negative definition: if it*s something else, what? Much of what*s published as poetry in the field is light verse -- limericks about the young man from Centauri and so forth. I*m not sneering at this; I*ve done some of it. And then there are the pastiches, usually of Kipling or Robert W. Service. I think there*s some resistance in the general sf/f magazines to *difficult* poetry. It*s always hard to say how much of that resistance really reflects the readers* views, but some of it*s real enough. (I*ve seen reviewers simply sneer at blank verse, claiming it*s just prose with funny typesetting. These people are entitled to not like it, but they would seem disqualified from reviewing it.) One doesn*t see many convention panels on poetry, and I can*t think of one on interfaces between poetry and prose. There are certainly enough excellent poets in the field. To grab some names, Bruce Boston, Mike Bishop, Joe Haldeman. (And Ray Bradbury, but, well, Ray Bradbury.) I don*t want to get too far into the *so what is poetry anyway?* arguscussion, but I do think that it differs from prose not just in rhyme and meter (which are optional anyway) but in the essential approach to language. A poem can be construced entirely out of the simple declarative sentences that waaaaay too many genre writers iconize, but in an authentic poem, they will have a cumulative effect far different from those simp. dec. sents -- even the same ones -- set out as the equally iconic clear expository paragraphs.

The SF and fantasy verse doesn*t seem much different in the production to me, but neither does the prose. *Camelot Station* is pretty crisp-edged for an Arthurian fable. while *Propagation* deals with literal electromechanical components in wildly nonliteral terms.

Oh dear, C. P. Snow Falling on Cedars. Do the absolute art-bohemians and white-smock-scientists actually exist, outside of NEW YORKER cartoons? The people I know (possibly a biased sample, but whose isn*t?) usually lean professionally one way or the other, but that*s not an intellectual limitation. I would think the success of books like LONGITUDE and shows of *industrial art* indicate a broad audience for sci/tech artistically presented.

I dunno about *song lyrics that don*t have tunes,* because the lyrics all do. Unless you mean, is there a difference in writing a lyric that*s intended to be read as part of a prose work, in which case there sometimes is -- a strongly metric verse will probably read better than something heavily syncopated or actually arrythmic (some of Ani diFranco*s lyrics, for instance).

I*ve written short plays, and parts of longer ones. *Amy, at the Bottom of the Stairs* was originally conceived as a play, and could probably still be staged with a little adjustment. I*ve tried a couple of times to write an sf (not fantasy) stage musical, but I*ve never been happy with the books (some of the lyrics were okay).

The *do you avoid books that are too close to what you*re doing?* thing -- I suppose I do, but it*s not a deliberate avoidance. I read a lot more nonfiction than fiction (this was not always true). Many of the writers I admire most aren*t *dangerous* in this regard, because actually trying to imitate Gene Wolfe or John Crowley (for instance) is not a sensible notion. In a broader sense, I*m not very worried that I*ll do something that*s *too much like* someone else*s handling of the same topic or theme -- and of course the first refuge of the field*s wannabe critics is looking for *influences,* it being a lot easier to notice that this and that author both had a funny sidekick with a disability than to figure out if either one brought anything interesting to the character, his jokes, or the viscera. [Read entire topic]

#69: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 2 Nov 01 21:31

Fri, 02 Nov 2001 21:31:00 PST

Definitely! [Read entire topic]

#68: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 2 Nov 01 17:04

Fri, 02 Nov 2001 17:04:00 PST

It's hard to believe two weeks have gone by already! It's been such a pleasure having you here, Mike. Thank you for joining us in Inkwell.vue. And thanks to you too, Patrick, for leading the conversation.

You're both welcome to continue, of course, if you wish. The topic will remain open in case you'd like to carry on. Here's hoping you do! [Read entire topic]

#67: Linda Castellani (castle) Thu 1 Nov 01 22:52

Thu, 01 Nov 2001 22:52:00 PST

E-mail from Kate Nepveu:

Patrick, you're right about the paperback cover; I have the hardback with the nifty picture of the medal on it. But I've had quite a few copies of that (probably more than the paperback) pass through my hands, too.

lioness--nice to meet someone else who loves "All Our Propagation." It's in the NESFA collection _From the End of the Twentieth Century_ and it's my favorite thing in it, notwithstanding such wonders as "Troy: The Movie" and "Walkaway Clause."

And an actual question for Mike (go figure...). I see someone upthread mentioned _Last Call_, a fabulous book, though not one that _The Last Hot Time_ reminds me of. Anyway, I once mentioned it to an author who was working on something about poker, who responded that it was now off-limits _because_ it was about poker. I've seen a number of other authors say similar things--that they can't, or don't want to, read things close to what they're doing. And not just on the same topic; I believe Terry Pratchett has said that he mostly reads things other than fantasy. Do you find yourself doing something similar? (And regardless of what genre, anything in particular you'd like to recommend?) [Read entire topic]

#66: Linda Castellani (castle) Thu 1 Nov 01 22:51

Thu, 01 Nov 2001 22:51:00 PST

E-mail from Kathy Li:

Elise, "All Our Propogation" is in FROM THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY, and yeah, it takes my breath away, too, and no, I have no words, either.

Ok, here's questiony sorts of thingies for Mike. What is it, do you think, that has caused a seeming schism between art and science in this century so that when a writer is capable of combining the two together into a work where the concept of the piece is bound in a scientific idea, such as in "All Our Propogation" or Stoppard's ARCADIA, it is a rarity? Is it really that rare for an artist to use scientific/mathematical material as an aesthetic basis or for a mathematician/scientist to have no appreciation for aesthetics? (I can't help thinking that it's the lack of that schism that gives Elizabethan/Jacobean literature/poetry some added fascination for me).

And, what's the difference between writing poetry and writing song lyrics that don't have tunes (e.g., "Monochrome")?

And, have you ever written a play? (and is it/would it be in verse or prose?)

--Kathy [Read entire topic]

#65: double-axled haywains and Harpo Marx going honk-honk (lioness) Wed 31 Oct 01 23:00

Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:00:00 PST

The science fiction poetry has a different flavor... Drat. Cannot find words. Kinda like... no, there is no comparison I could make. But it is no less poetry than science fiction, and no less science fiction than poetry, and the intersection goes someplace very worth going. It's not... limited by either, although that's the wrong way to say it. (Drat. Double drat. Somebody else figure out what the useful words there would be, please?) Have you spent any time in the poetry community?

And is "All Our Propagation" out anywhere?

(There are two lines in that poem that rank up there with a poem by Ono no Komachi, in terms of talismanic words, words of opening.)

Does writing the science fiction poetry feel different than writing the fantasy poetry, or do the buckets come up out of the same well? [Read entire topic]