from DIVINE MS M (tnf) Wed 24 Jul 02 14:06
MS M again: Crosby has shown us (as have so many others) that it's just as possible to do top notch work from domestic bliss as it is from the tortured depths of misery- I look forward to seeing what Stills has for us...
Chris Carroll (marvy) Wed 24 Jul 02 20:19
Uh, I think maybe you're referring to Neil Young and the Shocking Pinks. My vote for worst Neil album (although it did contain "Kinda Fonda Wanda" which was funny in a novelty song sort of way).
look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Thu 25 Jul 02 05:52
The DIVINE MS M offered: >One observation I made (again) at the 2/02 Grand Rapids show is how >different Neil's audience seems to be from the people who turn out >for CSN without him, or for CPR or any of the guys alone. At the >risk of starting a brawl here, I will comment that having seen >several different configurations, Neil sure seems to bring out the >drunks, yodelers and loudmouths. You know, I was fortunate to see CSN a couple of times last summer, and then CSNY four times during the 02 tour and I couldn't quite describe what it was that was so different. Divine does it perfectly above. It was clear who the Neil fans were, clearer that they made up the majority of the audience, and clearer still that they didn't really care much for CSN, and least not without Y. I know I got to see them do Carry Me (God that song just owns me) a couple of times. The four guys playing acoustics, Crosby's lyrics and voice, wow, I mean it was just a highlight for me. But for the Neil fans... both times there were chowder heads screaming for Neil. If the song itself hadn't been so beautiful and if I hadn't been enjoying myself so much, I can almost guarantee you the world have two fewer Neil Young fans today. >I've seen some messed-up people at concerts, but the 2/02 show >treated us to the drunkest, foulest people I've ever seen at a live >show (next to us, unfortunately) who screamed for Neil the whole >time. I made the same observation about the loudmouths at the last >Neil solo show I saw. My companion for all of these shows calls >them the "whooo-oooo people". Totally and sadly agreed. In, errr Bland Rapids, there was a girl one row behind us, complete in leather pants and all the glamor-girl-wanna-be accoutrements -- covered in puke. She'd hurled all over herself. And get this -- this was in the section reserved for radio, press and other media types.
Mary Eisenhart (marye) Thu 25 Jul 02 06:53
Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Thu 25 Jul 02 07:23
I've seen Neil Young in concert more than 30 times since 1973, and CSN, C&N and the C,S,N solo roughly 50 times over that same period. It wasn't until the '90s that I noticed a personality shift in their audiences. I thought it might be the "grunge crowd" factor, but lately Neil also seems to bring out the "motorcycle mamas" and "two keg-a-night dudes." It depends a lot on whether Neil has a band or is on his own. His '92 and '99 solo acoustic tours brought our mostly fans who were there to hear the likes of "Tell Me Why" and "Old Man." But when Neil's got a band behind him ... look out for screams for "HURRICANE!," whiskey flasks and flying hurl!
look, it's all right there in front of you... (cmf) Thu 25 Jul 02 07:30
Oh yeah baby, new pseud "Whiskey flasks and flying Hurl!"
Mary Eisenhart (marye) Thu 25 Jul 02 10:05
Well, don't go dissin' Hurricane.:-)
Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Thu 25 Jul 02 18:05
No "Hurricane" diss intended, Mary ... ;-) It's a cool song, though I wouldn't rank it in my Top Ten NY songs ... including "Ambulance Blues," "Tell Me Why," "Dangerbird," "Cowgirl In the Sand," "Ordinary People," "Ride My Llama," "When You Dance (I Can Really Love)," "New Mama," "For the Turnstiles," "Lookout For My Love" ... a list that is forever changing ...
Chris Carroll (marvy) Thu 25 Jul 02 18:20
Ambulance Blues! My all time fave. Good call.
Mary Eisenhart (marye) Thu 25 Jul 02 20:16
Well, one of the reasons I'm so fond of "Hurricane" is that back in the early '80s when we all used to go see Jerry at the Keystone Palo Alto they played it for between-set music a lot, REALLY loud, and we used to lounge under the stage (odd setup) and literally absorb the vibrations. And, for that matter, I can't get through "Long May You Run" without getting teary, either. Especially since the version they did at the Bill Graham memorial, during which there probably wasn't a dry eye in Golden Gate Park.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 25 Jul 02 22:19
From DIVINE MS M, who is signing up for the WELL and will soon be posting for herself. To Zimmer et al: Wow, I forgot about the Shocking Pinks. Probably haunts Neil in his sleep... You know, as far as the Neil fans go, I agree, Dave. The last time we saw CSN, we all took our kids. No chance of me taking my daughter to a show with Neil in it, sorry. I don't know when I became a dinosaur, but it used to be cool to be quiet, respectful, mellow (high- <grin>). I don't know when the angry, nihilistic drink-till-you-puke kids took over, but they're definitely out there, and they love Neil. I could have done without the drunk guy attempting to dance and falling on me- again, and again- and then getting mad because the $86 seat I paid for was in his way. As for the moto-mamas, I've always found that the bikers tend not only to behave themselves out in public, but toJlend a hand with maintaining order, in most settings.JGuess you can't expect people to act right in a monument to Christian Reformed soap- but it's all over, from what you say. The screaming during the acoustic numbers was just rude, and so distracting! All I wanted to do was HEAR, and the knuckleheads made that difficult. It's embarassing. I don't think Neil's fans have a glimmer of a clue who the rest of his band are... FYI, Dave,Jthis is such a small pond that I believe I know who the drunk chick was. Is there anything hotter than a tarted-up blithering drunk woman wearing her own brool? Lovely. When those CRCJkids fall, they fall HARD. They learn how to be quiet, but nobody teaches them how to drink, I guess. Thanks for reminding me about Carry Me- and also Ambulance Blues. Love them both, and Cowgirl just shoots me right back through the time tunnel every time I hear it. Weren't the 70s a nice time to be young? I heard Graham on Rockline last night, and it takes me back to my original query, Dave (kind of). Shakey doesn't paint a pretty picture, though I'd have to say Neil's made an adjustment to the world that works- for him. We've all heard about Crosby's various struggles- but you've got to hand it to him for pulling it out. Amazing comeback... blows me away every time I think aboutJhow tough he must be, and his humor shines through in everything he says. Love a man withJa twinkle in his eye.JJNash has always seemed like a happy, serene, well-adjusted man. So what would you say about Stills? And would you say that my impressions are correct? How have they all changed and evolved- or devolved- in the years you've known them? Come on with it, Dave- and whatever else you'd add. Thanks.
He's filling empty space with the substance of our lives (sd) Fri 26 Jul 02 04:46
I've always found that the bikers tend not only to behave themselves out in public, but toJlend a hand with maintaining order, in most settings. This is where you and Jagger would have agreed at one point. seriously, i ended up in the middle of a ton of MC folk at the Other Ones with my young teenaged daughter. they were the best showbuddies i've had iin a long time. seemed like they were there for the music (esp hot tuna) or something.
Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Fri 26 Jul 02 08:40
Divine Ms. M asks: >So what would you say about Stills? And would you say that my impressions are correct? How have they all changed and evolved- or devolved- in the years you've known them? I must admit what first drew me to Stills as a listener was the perceived pain and suffering in many of his songs (from "Helplessly Hoping" and "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" to "So Begins the Task" and "Colorado" to "I Give, You Give Blind" and "Run From Tears"). The man behind those songs certainly has had his moments of sadness. But the Stills I have gotten to know over the past 20 years seems more restless than sad. He's constantly searching. He also likes to laugh ... a lot ... and remains proud of his music (even though his songwriting output have lost steam in recent years). So I think your impressions of him are only partially correct, IMHO. Croz is like a wise owl. He's survived so much, yet is still so vital -- as a man and a creative being. Amazing. Even when he was beaten down(when I first met him 20 something years ago), the fire was still there. Nash, of course, is like a rock, a gentle rock. Well-adjusted? Serene? I guess those words could apply. But he can get mad and does impulsive things just like everyone else. I could listen to Nash tell stories for hours.
Andrea McKillop (aka Divine Ms. M) (divinea) Fri 26 Jul 02 22:12
I figured that somebody would point out that very notable exception to the rule...there's a story about that in Dave's book, if memory serves... The pain and suffering in the work can be more-or less- reflective of somebody's state of mind. Sometimes, it's just that moment and not some greater world view. I'd say Stills has a great deal to be proud of. I'm also always glad to know that there are some of us that are still searching. Croz's humanity and vitality shine through in whatever I've seen. Seeing him in person, it radiates. I've gathered that Nash is a good conversationalist- he sure gives good interview, always seeming acute. Maybe you could get him to do a longer thing here, Dave- or perhaps that's another book. What are you thinking of doing next, Dave? Or are you still recuperating? And did I mention how much I enjoyed the book? One other brief question, Dave. A couple of rounds back, you mentioned that this may be the last time around the wheel for CSNY. Any particular reason that you said so, or is it more of the same old hmmmmm?
an angry consumer (sd) Sat 27 Jul 02 08:42
welcome to the well, andrea!
Andrea McKillop (divinea) Sat 27 Jul 02 08:46
Thanks, angry c...
Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 28 Jul 02 07:45
>What are you thinking of doing next, Dave? Or are you still recuperating? Am not sure what you mean by "recuperating." From writing about CSN(&Y)? There was never a time when that felt like a trial. As for what's next ... if Joni Mitchell remains elusive ... I really don't know. Nash and Stills supposedly both have autobiograhpies well underway. With some more time (hard to find these days), I may merge my love of baseball and music into something. We shall see. >A couple of rounds back, you mentioned that this may be the last time around the wheel for CSNY. Any particular reason that you said so, or is it more of the same old hmmmmm? CSNY 2K2 just felt like a finale to me ... not based on anything other than that. I could be wrong. The aging of rock and roll is happening before our eyes. There's no road map to follow.
Dave Zimmer (zimmerdave) Sun 28 Jul 02 07:46
>And did I mention how much I enjoyed the book? Thanks very much, Andrea. Time for Sunday chores ...
Andrea McKillop (divinea) Sun 28 Jul 02 08:59
>Am not sure what you mean by "recuperating." From writing about CSN(&Y)? There was never a time when that felt like a trial. Oops, that's not what I meant to suggest, Dave. I just always need R & R between projects, so that's what I refer to ....more rejuvenation than recuperation, used the wrong word. A sabbatical, if you will. The ones after a good project are the sweetest. >CSNY 2K2 just felt like a finale to me... Interesting that you say that. About five minutes into the show, my companion turned to me and commented that we'd better enjoy it, because it sure felt like the last time we'd see it ("it" being all four of them, together). I'd love to see you do the Joni book. It needs doing.
Dan Marsh (dam) Tue 30 Jul 02 07:40
Andrea, welcome and forgive me for asking: what do you do? I am assuming you are a writer based on your "r & r between projects" comment. I hope I asked this the right way, but again, welcome to the well!
Andrea McKillop (divinea) Tue 30 Jul 02 15:05
Hmmm....can't think how there could be a wrong way, and ask away :-). Yes, I write. Spent this year working on a thesis-level project that has morphed into a book. Yippee- finally! It's something I've been wanting to do for years. I was referring more to my paid work, though, as a project manager. And thanks for the welcome, Dan- it's all a little intimidating, but I have felt really welcome because of folks like you.
Andrea McKillop (divinea) Tue 30 Jul 02 15:07
Dan Marsh (dam) Wed 31 Jul 02 05:48
glad to have you around!
Mary Eisenhart (marye) Sun 11 Aug 02 16:12
Turned on Channel 9 last night and there was Henry Diltz! Offering signed copies of the Morrison Hotel photo as pledge prizes (offering Dave's book as a pledge prize also!). All the pledge fu interspersed between bits of "Under the Covers," a documentary on his work. Which had some really lovely stuff in it. Probably coming soon to a PBS station near you!
Linda Castellani (castle) Sun 11 Aug 02 18:19
Actually, Henry Diltz is coming to an inkwell.vue near you and his terrific DVD, Under the Covers is available to WELL members simply by being among the first three people to send your request to firstname.lastname@example.org, along with an address where we can mail it to you. Accepting one of his DVDs come with a price tag, though: you have to agree to watch it and then come and participate in the discussion. Here's how terrific this DVD is: When I got a copy, I came home that night about 11:30 and watched it and then got up the next morning and watched it again and then started waylaying people to show it to, somewhat like the Ancient Mariner. I love this DVD, and it is so well-done that everything seems like it's happening right now and you get to watch!
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