David Gans (tnf) Mon 9 Dec 02 09:12
(A lof of my fans are Deadheads, but my own musical style isn't as cmpatible with that sound as people tend to think. But that's not for this topic. <inkwell.vue.107> has more about me.) I am not sure it's necessary or worthwhile to indict the Grateful Dead for not being more political. I think maybe they were making sure that there was a place to celebrate no matter what else was going on.
RUSirius (rusirius) Mon 9 Dec 02 10:35
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that deadhead Senator Leahy is co-sponsor of the "Rave Act"... the most absurd piece of drug war legislation yet (with the possible exception of the Methamphetamine bill that got squashed a few years ago.) The "Rave Act" of course would have made the sponsors of the Trips Festivals subject to lengthy jail terms merely for providing the space... In fact, technically it would make the sponsors of any Grateful Dead, Other Ones, Willie Nelson, Whitney Houston, Eminem, Bob Dylan, baseball, football... etc. Anyway, this is a nice love-in we're having here, but really... what ABOUT Al Queda, and weaponized smallpox, and Jihadism? Since 9/11, I feel like "we" (counterculture lefties) are as much on automatic as they (mainstreamers and rightwingers) are... Things have changed... complexified enormously. Any solutions?
Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Mon 9 Dec 02 10:55
Well if they had LISTENED to US (counterculture lefties), a long time ago, NONE of this would be a problem. U.S. foreign policy has been a disaster and has had the effect of radicalizing -- actually "reactionizing" -- whole groups of Middle Easterners. But I agree that the question is what do we do know? I wish I could say, "pull out of Israel and stop supporting the Saudis and everything will be all right" but the genie is out of the bottle -- no Hollywood Arab stereotypes meant here -- and I don't how to get rid of him/them. We should feverishly be building alternative and green energy sources, of course, but I don't know how long that would take to get us off the Mid-East teat. I hate Islmamic fundamentalists but also hate Christian and Jewish fundamentalists. Personally, a jihad against ALL religion would be fine with me, but I -- ahem -- don't think there'd be popular support. I'm not sure there IS any hope, Sirius (there's me doin' the yo-yo dance, Krass). Personally, next year -- Canada, sounds like a viable option. I just woke up so I am lacking pith. But I agree that your question is the important one. How do we reconcile our freak flags and libertarian communism while Al-Qaeda is flying planes into us?
Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Mon 9 Dec 02 10:57
Of course the option of capturing Osama and giving him a sex change op has always seemed like the Yippie solution.
CHRISTOPHER MEYER writes (tnf) Mon 9 Dec 02 11:44
From Christopher Meyer: > I can understand where you're coming from on your "jihad on all religion" > comment, but i'd have to say that it's misinformed. It seems liberals > today dismiss Chrisitanity as Republican-made, because of the image > portrayed by, say, the Conservative Coalition (which i shudder to capital- > ize, pardon the pun), which would lead you believe that Christianity is all > about establishing capitalist theocracies, being a "good citizen," and > drilling for oil. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth! Jesus > was and is all about the poor, the biggest pacifist ever, and anything but > a "letter of the law" conservative. Do you think the Prince of Peace is > glad that George W Bush is shipping israel weapons in His name?!
David Gans (tnf) Mon 9 Dec 02 11:45
Reminder: off-WELL readers are invited to send comments or questions to email@example.com for posting in the discussion.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 11:49
Simmons: Yeah, I agree, in the sense that there is a countercultural continuity, so that for example the Ruckus Society is a sort of descendant of the Yippies even if members never heard of them, just as many comedians today are descendants of Lenny Bruce--who served as a pioneer for the free speech they take for granted--even if they never saw him perform.
Gail Williams (gail) Mon 9 Dec 02 12:15
> even if members never heard of them I wonder about this. Reinventing the wheel is actually a lot of fun but having models to crib from allows for faster evolution. Maybe the Web and its searchability can begin to give underground satirists and political artists the advantages of true continuity, where they can steal from their predecessors an not just run on reaction and creativity. On the other hand, a youth movement needs that rediscovery. I think. Wasn't it important that the old farts mostly didn't get it? Paul, do you still get speaking gigs on campuses and other places where people are able to distrust those over 30 these days? I bet you do. Has that circuit and audience changed in the last decade? (I should probably say Hi here -- I was in group that was briefly listed in your speakers bureau years back, the Plutonium Players ... featuring Ladies Against Women, Reagan for Shah and other ficticious satiric inorganizations.)
flying jenny (jenslobodin) Mon 9 Dec 02 12:37
Reading here made me hunger for more, MORE Krassner! I just subscribed to the Ironic Times. Mmm, delicious! Now, I need to buy the book. I noted in Carlin's intro that he still has his back copies of The Realist, stored in a red, white and blue bag from the convention in Chicago, 1968. I wish *I* did (a sad lesson learned: don't store your stuff at your parents' house, even if they _are_ old lefties, because someone _else_ might come along and "clean out" the attic). Do you have enough archived to sell any of the old issues, Paul?
Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Mon 9 Dec 02 13:46
To Christopher: Firstly, I'm not a liberal. I'm somewhere between an anarchist, a communist and a surrealist. Secondly, I'm fully aware that capitalist Christianity is an oxymoronic concept. I also believe in freedom of religion, so do what thou wilt, to quote Aleister Crowley. I also think that people who worship some cat who died 2000 years ago as being anything other than an effective activist (i.e., son of god, etc.) are deluded. Theoretically the First Amendment gives me the right to say organized religion has been mostly disastrous and you the right to praise Jesus however you see fit. I say "theoretically" because the Constitution has been at least partially suspended by the Christian currently sitting in the White House as well as the Christian Attorney General who rubs Crisco into his forehead, thinks dancing is a sin, and spent 8 grand to cover up a single tit on a statue. One of my best friends is a practicing Methodist lay minister, albeit a left-winged one, but even he laughs when I refer to Christians as "lion-bait".
Michael Simmons (michaelsimmons) Mon 9 Dec 02 13:48
Actually I've decided "what" I really am. I'm a fundamentalist relativist.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 13:53
Hi, Gail--yes, I occasionally do a one-person show at colleges and other venues; I'll be performing at the Beverly Hills Library at 7 on Monday, December 16. The audiences transcend the so-called generation gap, having in common that they are hungry for intelligent satire instead of easy reference jokes as seen on TV and in comedy clubs. It seems that the greater the repression, the greater the need for irreverence.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 13:57
Hey, Jenny--Ironic Times is run by a couple of friends, but I'm not a contributor, although I'll pass on your enthusiasm to them. Are there any specific issues of The Realist that you're interested in? Actually, Murder At the Conspiracy Convention includes some recent pieces from The Realist, as do a couple of my other books; check out my Web site, paulkrassner.com
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 14:01
Simmons wrote: and spent 8 grand to cover up a single tit on a statue. and how much does it cost to cover up a married tit these days?
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 14:02
Simmons wrote: I'm a fundamentalist relativist. *** I was once listed in Who's Who in America as an independent dupe.
flying jenny (jenslobodin) Mon 9 Dec 02 14:18
Haha!! About Ironic Times. Oh. Silly me. I should have known. Though quite funny, it didn't exactly have your depth of...somethingorother. Depth. I have checked out your website, of course, and will order the books. Liked Kurt Vonnregut's intro very much, by the way. I'd dig ANY of the great old The Realists, actually. I'll email you to ask for further info. Meanwhile, since I haven't read the books yet, I don't know what to ask you about your take on more current affairs. (Thinking perhaps you may sometimes tire of reminiscing, though of course, we would love any stories you have, I'm sure). Who else is in the Counterculture Hall of Fame, I wonder?
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 14:47
Jenny writes: Who else is in the Counterculture Hall of Fame, I wonder? Bob Marley, Louis Armstrong, Mewzz Mezzrow, Jack Kerouac, Neal Cassady, allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, Ina May Gaskin (founder of the midwife movement). Incidentally, my e-mail is pkrassner.com Keep flying...
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 14:51
Jenny, my take on the most current affair is that this may be the first time in history that a country is being forced to disarm before a war against them begins. And here's a brief oldie but goldie: during the '60s, when abortion was illegal, I ran an underground referral service. I received many phone calls, and one time a woman called about lateness, and I told her I could put her in touch with a safe doctor; she didn;t know what I was talking about since she was calling about the lateness of her subscription to The Realist.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 15:31
Oops! Jenny, I goofed on my own website! It's firstname.lastname@example.org
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:13
Jenny, I can't believe this, but my actual--not website, but e-mail address--is email@example.com the message here is that too many .coms spoil the brash.
"First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:14
doesn't come up for me at either earthlink.net or earthlink.com.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:15
This is really crazy. I did it again and then acted as if I didn't. Okay, now, for the last time, my e-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org Whew!!!
"First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:15
OK, that explains why it doesn't load, but are you sure it's not: email@example.com
"First you steal a bicycle...." (rik) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:16
Slippage, with the real goods.
Paul Krassner (paulkrassner) Mon 9 Dec 02 16:17
I've heard the old joke about the gypsy recipe that begins, "First you steal a chicken..."--but what's the context of "First you steal a bicycle?"
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