The WELL: inkwell.vue.172: Mark Frauenfelder, Mad Professor

#41: Mark Harms (murffy) Fri 31 Jan 03 17:59

Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:59:00 PST

Thanks Jon. And thanks Mark. [Read entire topic]

#40: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 31 Jan 03 15:53

Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:53:00 PST

A new discussion has launched featuring Cory Doctorow (who's a prolific blogger via the bOING bOING blog that Mark F. created). Mark and Mark, I wanted to thank you both for bringing us this cool discussion, and let you know that you're welcome to continue! [Read entire topic]

#39: Gail Ann Williams (gail) Thu 30 Jan 03 11:43

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:43:00 PST

However, I think either washing soda or water softener would be in the laundry aisle. [Read entire topic]

#38: Gail Ann Williams (gail) Thu 30 Jan 03 11:39

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:39:00 PST

Did a little more poking while on the phone on hold. The key thing is getting the right chemicals. From http://www.steamengine.com.au/ic/faq/electrolysis.html

>Pure sodium carbonate is called soda ash, and is very dangerous because >it will boil water when mixed with it, and even make a steam explosion. >Washing soda is the hydrated form of sodium carbonate (called sodium >carbonate decahydrate, it has TEN water molecules attached to one >sodium carbonate molecule!), and is 5/8 water by weight even though >it is a dry powder. The product you found at the store labeled as >detergent is not washing soda, although it has some in it. Washing soda >is a mixture of mostly sodium carbonate decahydrate with some sodium >sesquicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate in it. Go to the grocery store >or supermarket and read the labels on the washing supplies for walls and >floors. Washing soda is sold under the names of stuff like Spic 'N Span, >TSP Brand washing compound, and 20 Mule Team washing soda (not borax). If >you can't find anything that is 90%-100% washing soda (sodium carbonate >decahydrate) and/or sodium sesquicarbonate, just get some plain old Arm & >Hammer baking soda. Take 0.6 times (about 5/8) as much baking soda as >the amount of washing soda called for in the electrolyte recipe, >add just enough water to make it soupy, heat it for a few minutes while >it fizzes, then add it to the rest of the water. Baking soda is >sodium bicarbonate, which decomposes with a little heat and water into >carbon dioxide gas and sodium carbonate decahydrate. [Read entire topic]

#37: Mark Frauenfelder (mark) Thu 30 Jan 03 11:07

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:07:00 PST

Thanks Gail! I guess you can buy water softening powder at any supermarket? [Read entire topic]

#36: Mark Harms (murffy) Thu 30 Jan 03 10:09

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:09:00 PST

That is interesting. And thanks to (jetpack) over in the science conf. I know little about chemistry. [Read entire topic]

#35: Gail Ann Williams (gail) Thu 30 Jan 03 09:40

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:40:00 PST

Obviously that's for older kids, but the idea that you are making a battery to clean coins, spoons or necklaces is pretty cool. [Read entire topic]

#34: Gail Ann Williams (gail) Thu 30 Jan 03 09:39

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:39:00 PST

OK, I finally did the logical thing and asked in the Science conference.

Great answer, I'll paraphase the points. I hope the poster drops by over here too.

This experiment creates a weak battery the NaCl/Na2CO3 is the electrolyte, and the dissimilar metals are the electrodes.

The oxidized silver tarnish is being reduced and the more reactive aluminum is being oxidized

If enough spoons were cleaned, eventually the aluminum foil would disappear. The aluminum is providing electrons to the silver.

If you cleaned enough silver there would be a white precipitate of some kind of aluminum hydroxide or carbonate precipitate ... (maybe we can figure out what that would be).

<science.564.133> [Read entire topic]

#33: Gail Ann Williams (gail) Wed 29 Jan 03 11:00

Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:00:00 PST

Yeah, that's it. By a guy named Haley. I'm no cleaning wiz, but I got that book as a sort of geeking household joke gift. I really want to know the science of this:

place a sheet of aluminum foil on the bottom of a sink or pan 1 qt hot (not burning hot) water (enough to cover silver) 1 Tbsp water softener/washing soda (he notes that if you are in europe this is not what is called "washing soda crystals" over there -- which could do damage to silver) 1 Tbsp salt

Place the silver in for 10 seconds, be sure all silver peices touch the foil and are fully covered by water. Remove, buff with a soft cloth.

(On the web you find variants saying that you have to use a pan, and boil the silver and all for 2 minutes, but that doesn't seem to be the case.)

There's an article on care of valuable raised pattern silverware, etc, at http://doityourself.com/clean/silver.htm mentioning this method with the boiling directive.

The Haley book says to not use it with anything with stones set in it. The setting could loosen. (I'm guessing that's with glued settings only but he doesn't say).

I have a bunch of questions. What's the chemical colution from salt and water softener/washing soda? How does the electrolytic process work (I think that's the term.)

Why are other folk methods polishing with either salted lemon juice or a baking soda solution, since one is acid and one base?

Why do you damage silver if you put it in the dishwasher touching stainless steel?

It's all a mystery. But dipping into that bath and touching the foil is very cool. [Read entire topic]

#32: beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Wed 29 Jan 03 10:20

Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:20:00 PST

my lab partner has the flu, so though I did buy borax and white vinegar for us, we haven't gotten back to experimenting. hopefully next weekend.

not sure if this is what Gail does, but I saw someone hawking a home cleaning book on TV once and they cleaned silver with a solution of warm water, salt and washingi soda, in a pan lined with aluminum foil. Have used that method a few times, winging the proportions and it works great. [Read entire topic]