The WELL: inkwell.vue.178: David Weinberger, "Small Pieces Loosely Joined"

#103: LoRayne Apo (lorayne-apo) Thu 10 Apr 03 19:48

Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:48:00 PDT

Thanks, David, Jon et al. Appreciated a reason to revisit the Cluetrain Manifesto. Remember there are those younger than you who need to see leaders other than those you see. I will be watching to see what comes of GreaterDemocracy.org; you've got the social capital, throw it around! [Read entire topic]

#102: The Fucked-Up Piano Chicks (magdalen) Thu 10 Apr 03 14:56

Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:56:00 PDT

cool discussion. thanks dave, jon, and everyone. and thanks LoRayne! "shameless catalyst" is gonna be my next pseudonym. so what if the interviewee is a published author and you're not? you're the one throwing down for political change here. step one: demand that someone else start the meme riot. step two: realize you just started it yourself. [Read entire topic]

#101: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 9 Apr 03 07:03

Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:03:00 PDT

We extended the conversation a couple of days because of David's trip to Italy, so we never posted the usual and official THANKS! for a great discussion. David, you're welcome, of course, to stay or return and continue the conversation past the designated end date. [Read entire topic]

#100: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Mon 7 Apr 03 10:46

Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:46:00 PDT

Fear of being blown to bits while living under a bridge and eating dogfood would be more rational.

I think a lot of the blue state people would be more afraid that the red state people would start showing up looking for less crowded bridge dwellings. [Read entire topic]

#99: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 7 Apr 03 09:41

Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:41:00 PDT

Fear of being exploded to bits rather than fear of living under a bridge and eating dogfood in one's declining years seems to be the big shift. [Read entire topic]

#98: the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Sun 6 Apr 03 20:24

Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:24:00 PDT

Focus that thought on the blue states and you get a different sense of the problem than if you look at the whole puzzle.

They've changed the game now though. Fear is way outselling hope. [Read entire topic]

#97: LoRayne Apo (lorayne-apo) Sat 5 Apr 03 17:36

Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:36:00 PST

"Come on like grown-ups" -- meaning, they use demographics and marketing surveys and spin doctors, I mean, marketing managers and copy writers -- that's nothing that any one going to business school didn't learn. That could be part of the problem; the distribution of business types by political orientation could be skewed against people with the skill set needed. But if Bill Clinton could master it, it can be mastered again. What we need to find is that core group who can handle the packaging and marketing.

The other problem, as I see it, is that both the left and the right don't see that balancing a budget, protecting the environment and increasing homeland security are not mutually exclusive objectives. The platform the Dems published for 2000 was so damned broad that it should have covered everyone; perhaps it's that the message isn't crystallized clearly enough so that everyone realizes it's their platform of choice. [Read entire topic]

#96: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 5 Apr 03 15:04

Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:04:00 PST

By grownups, I think I mean people who seem to have it together, even if they don't. You know how it is when you have that moment of epiphany, the realization that your parents really didn't have everything under control? Then you extend that to everybody else, and realize nobody knows what the fuck they're doing half the time.

I like Suzuki Roshi's comment "perfect existence through imperfect existence," though... [Read entire topic]

#95: David Weinberger (dweinberger) Sat 5 Apr 03 06:28

Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:28:00 PST

By "grownups" you mean (roughly) realists, i.e., the "manly" virtue of presenting bad news fearlessly? Why doesn't hope have any appeal any more? That used to be the difference between the left and right. It's why conservatives are called "conservatives": fearful of the future, they clung to the past.

Maybe this is the connection between the Web and the left: both are about hope. Maybe emergent democracy is really emergent hope.

Why did hope stop counting politically? [Read entire topic]

#94: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 4 Apr 03 19:12

Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:12:00 PST

Could it be that they can't stand liberals because they're communists? I mean, really - the right just took the freight that was attached to the word "communist" and attached it to the word "liberal" - and voila, they'd forced liberals to pretend they were something else, ultimately changing label (to "progressive.") How long before Rush et al replace "liberal" with "progressive" in his rants?

But I do think it was more. I think they worked to get their people focused, and I don't know how to focus a room full of progressives, because diversity is what it's all about, no? On the other hand, diversity of opinion means it's hard to keep everyone on message.

The other thing is that Republicans come on like grownups. I hate that. [Read entire topic]