the invetned stiff is dumb (bbraasch) Tue 6 Jul 04 16:58
I guess I come to this discussion as someone who lives among many goddesses but if I tried to take any of those tests I'm sure I'd flunk the physical. No matter how many times I take it. It seems like the book should be assigned reading at maybe age 12 or even before -- just about the time a young goddess would come to realize that the boys are stupid but if you can get their attention long enough to keep them from pitching the tent in a riverbed ahead of a rainstorm, they might survive and be teachable. Or not. My daughters have that as their mantra - Boys are stupid - but they keep bringing them home. I had a conversation with Mesa Broek, an artist in Bolinas, about the transition for young women when they leave Bolinas to go to high school in Mill Valley. She said they come from Bolinas with all this power and awareness of life then they can be confused and disillusioned by what they see over the hill (Bolinas talk for Mill Valley and points East). That's the reverse of your journey, it seems, heading out to the country from the big city. Is one path preferred over the other? It seems to me it's a lot easier to be closer to the earth when you're closer to the dirt and the wet parts of it.
Rip Van Winkle (keta) Tue 6 Jul 04 19:26
Welcome <bratwood>, Penny, and <bbraasch>. Again this is a driveby post - 5 minutes on a borrowed computer. So I won't say much except that <bbraasch>'s comment about 12 year old girls leads right into what I was wondering. My travels the last few days have shown me a whole range of age groups, many more teens that I'm used to being around, and what I wonder is how do the Modern Goddesses age. Have you thought, Francesca, about taking these Modern Goddesses through the traditional goddess stages - virgin, mother, crone? What does a Threefold Trickster Goddess look like? Or a Threefold Activist? Or a Threefold Goddess-Just-Wants-To-Have-Fun?
the Conoisseurship of Stonation (bratwood) Wed 7 Jul 04 12:36
I think the book is fun, a useful reminder to work toward our best selves. Though I have to admit one passage went bump for me. On page 156, as part of the pledge: "I will never think there is something I can't achieve. I will never tell anyone else that about themselves." I think that even goddesses have their areas of specialty and that means accepting limits. To expect to be unlimited seems more like a weakness to me than a strength. Perhaps the statement was simply intended to shake off some naysaying attitudes, but it reminded me of younger days when I expected too much of myself.
Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Wed 7 Jul 04 13:18
Omigoddess. A woodprint of the trickster goddess. Let me know when youve done it. Theres almost nothing (I know of) in myth about female trickster deities. So, for women like you and me, Bratwood, weve got to create the images ourselves. As to brilliance outside of SF, Ive been writing a lot about that. But what it seems to come down to is: No one is hip just because they live in the city, are in some scene, or are on first name terms with someone they consider hip. Hip is what YOU are or are not and it boils down to having integrity with all its myriad implications. Thats something I hope folks get from reading this book: the support we all need to maintain integrity. When we have that, we can create amazing lives. Umm, Penny, hmm. Im blushing. Thank you. Wow. Now anything I post will be a let down after that high praise. And thanks everyone for the well-wishing on the move. As to pink-power, yes, Penny. I wear pink a lot and maybe some people think that that shows me to be lightweight. But I find remarkable magic in the color. Religious battles; whether Christian/Pagan or Pagan/Pagan, theyre awful. So much harm and hurt. The biggest part of them for me is fighting my own bitterness when the religious bigotry of Pagan or Christian has done me serious harm. The bitterness does equal damage to me. Re the disillusionment of young women, I remember being newly married in the 60s, a nineteen year old bride. I was stunned to suddenly discover I was to keep to the womens place. I hadnt even known that place existed up to then. Everyone, even other women, delegated me to that exile from life and excitement. When the Feminist Movement burgeoned I quickly joined in. There is a 12 yr old I heard about yesterday whos stolen the book from her mom and wont relinquish it. The youngn has proudly declaring herself a Sex Goddess a la the book's definition which is that you can be a Sex Goddess who is celibate. The book talks a lot about how to own your sexual power, including the sexual power of celibacy as a temporary state or lifestyle. I lahlahlove the idea of a three-fold take on each of the Goddesses. You know, I think the questions regarding this almost answer themselves. What challenges does a maiden trickster face? What strength does she have that the Mother or Crone Trickster doesnt? Just ask yourself lots of question about each aspect. Were all--as in all humans--brilliant enough to come up with great answers.
Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Wed 7 Jul 04 13:39
Thanks, bratwood. Horrors, I am a major proponent of people respecting their own limits. I just finished a book for teens and say that exact thing! I even say in it that when you ask for help it wakes up the God(dess) within, with all her/his power. In The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life I tried to be really clear about that, but maybe failed. Right before the materiel you quoted the pledge says, I will not expect perfection of myself.... and goes on at length about expecting too much from yourself and others so I thought the two parts of the pledge balanced each other. I am hoping maybe you missed that earlier part. Also, (she added defensively), in each Goddess section I detailed the strengths and weaknesses of each archetype. The section youre quoting was meant, as you said, to help with ones negative tapes. Reread and let me know if you think I messed up, Bratwood. I would want to know. In any case, Bratwood, someone said that the opposite of any great spiritual truth is also true, and the belief that you can accomplish whatever you choose is one such truth. It's important to know when to embrace a given truth or its opposite. So you shouldnt use that part of the pledge right now!
Rip Van Winkle (keta) Wed 7 Jul 04 19:40
So each of us is a deity, but we're not all-powerful, all-knowing, all anything (except all ALL). We're "all too human." With joy. With the ability to shift into different forms of divinity as we choose and need to. Hmmm... "Hump Day," as they say. In honor of our Corporate Goddesses, would you like to talk a little about them. Especially in light of the evolution of the women's movement, as you've seen it.
Jeff Loomis (jal) Thu 8 Jul 04 03:41
I had to review a bit, but Dave (tnf) hasn't posted his own words, he has provided the valuable reposting of off well comments. I don't know if this was straightened out or not, I skimmed a lot of the earlier posts. I know I was confused when tnf was quoting Penny, it didn't sound like his voice to me. Penny made some good points. Did I miss someone explaining why Vermillion SD was so special? I know you can find "special" in the strangest of places. Okay, if you look at it right, I might as well complete the phrase.
Donna Atwood (bratwood) Thu 8 Jul 04 06:38
<scribbled by bratwood Thu 8 Jul 04 07:01>
the Conoisseurship of Stonation (bratwood) Thu 8 Jul 04 07:01
Hmmm... I'll have to think more about that answer.
Teleological dyslexic (ceder) Thu 8 Jul 04 08:42
Oh my! Triune or trinitarian truth dependencies revealed. ;-)
David Gans (tnf) Thu 8 Jul 04 09:17
> I had to review a bit, but Dave (tnf) hasn't posted his own words, he has > provided the valuable reposting of off well comments. I don't know if this > was straightened out or not, I skimmed a lot of the earlier posts. I know > I was confused when tnf was quoting Penny, it didn't sound like his voice > to me. Penny made some good points. Thanks for pointiing that out, Jeff. The hosts of this conference - <jonl> and <bumbaugh> and <tnf> - field emails to firstname.lastname@example.org and post them in the topics. I always mark the posts by naming the correspondent in the pseud and int he first line of the post itself.
Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Thu 8 Jul 04 09:35
Flawed deities is a very Pagan concept. But then, Im very Pagan. Think Zeus with all his philandering. its also one of those paradoxes I so love. I do believe all power is in us as gods. I also believe were only human. When we bring those opposites together in a practical, down to earth, and compassionate way--as opposed to the absurd way Bratwood so rightly condemns as harmful--we have a route to happiness. (I am not talking about this paradox just b/c of what Bratwood said. Read any of my serious books and youll see me go into it.) As to the books Corporate Goddess let me address that tangentially. Yesterday, someone told me that you couldnt tell from this topic what is actually in the book. So I want to spell that out all in one post. It is a self-help book that uses humor, games, party themes, quizzes, and so on to empower women. The different modern Goddesses represent some of the various wondrous ways a given woman might manifest her own type of power. There are quizzes to find out which Goddess you are (or are this moment), then text on each of the thirteen Goddesses in the book: general descriptions of each Goddess, her strengths and weaknesses, helpful hints for women who embody that Goddess, and fashion tips. There are also games to help you gain the power of any of these modern Goddesses. Then there are some other odds and ends, like A Goddess Pledge, The Im Willing to Accept Diamond as Homage Manifesto. So the Corporate Goddess is one of these 13. I wanted to honor the many ways womanhood manifests in all its glory, gorgeousness, and even eccentricity. The thirteenth Goddess in the book is the Ultimate Goddess. The section on her helps a woman go a step beyond the other 12 Goddesses by determining which yet whole new other Goddess she is at any given moment in the day. Every moment of every day we express a unique aspect of ourselves and can better celebrate and draw on the power of that unique moment if we name it divine!
Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Thu 8 Jul 04 09:38
To "Teleological dyslexic" who said "Triune or trinitarian truth dependencies revealed", I am tickled, touched, and tenderly teased by so many "T"s!
Teleological dyslexic (ceder) Thu 8 Jul 04 12:26
(rosebud) Thu 8 Jul 04 12:53
Welcome Francesca and thank you for the opportunity to read your book. I have been wanting to read your books and this was just the nudge to get me started. I apologize for being tardy in responding to this interview. I have not been spending much time in front of the computer this week and wanted to give this interview the time it deserves. First of all, I have to say that the cover really threw me. It was pink and glittery! I love pink! In fact, just last week I was in search of the perfect new tie dye shirt for the holiday weekend and it was the one in pink that kept calling my name. However, I thought the cover would be a bit more "serious" (yikes, like what is serious?), but as I have read through the book I think the cover is perfect. In my thoughts, the cover is the perfect way to reach the up and coming younger goddess who doesn't realize she is one yet and for also the mainstream who may feel intimidated buying a book that has a serious cover that may suggest pagan content. I mean, what would her neighborhood koffee-klatch think? Of course I did the test. In fact, I took PINK post-it notes and sectioned off each test, labeled them accordingly and wrote my score. I ranked very high in the Mother Goddess, next was the Trickster, and third rank was the Princess Goddess. I know I would have ranked very high if there would have been a Wine Goddess and a Chocolate Goddess. Ranking high as a Mother Goddess was not surprising to me at all. My best friend/sweetums has often told me that I am a Earth Mother always trying to take care of everyone I know (including him). I am often the fan of the underdog. I shriek when people do not play fair and I think wars can be solved over good food and wine. Sometimes I can be very bossy. I know these things. I think the Mother Goddess kicked in when I was 19 years old and quit college to take care of my terminally ill father. I have wondered if other people recognize this. I was married to a man for 20 years and a year into our marriage he moved in his 6 year old son and 5 year old daughter for me to take care of and raise. The Trickster Goddess ranked high for me, as well. I chalked it all up to being a Gemini. "I will never think there is something I can't achieve. I will never tell anyone else that about themselves." Thank you for that. A good reminder. There are days when I feel like I cannot achieve certain goals. However, I quit blaming it on me. I blame it on the hours. There just isn't enough of them (hours). The resource section of the book I am definitely going to take advantage of. Overall, this was a book with good food for thought, eye opening and at the same time a quick and enjoyable read. I found myself smiling while I read it. Thanks again.
evil little honey (izzie) Thu 8 Jul 04 14:10
I should re-take the tests and post my resluts. You, too, bratwood!
evil little honey (izzie) Thu 8 Jul 04 14:11
resluts. guess that says alot all by itself!
(rosebud) Thu 8 Jul 04 14:33
>resluts It says that you are a Sex Goddess!
the Conoisseurship of Stonation (bratwood) Thu 8 Jul 04 17:04
Lusters! Oops, the Scrabble Goddess in me had to pop in with the anagram. I'm good at seeing the order in chaos. Actually, the Trickster quiz was 100%, although the name for me isn't "Howard" it's "Leonard" -- a name I gave my oldest cat which got great reactions. Mother: Nope, children run from me. Girlfriend: I can't deal with whining friends. Wake up! Love: Nay sister. Money makes the world go round. And maybe magic. Activism: I'm an anarchist at heart. Just Want to Have Fun: Gee, didn't check a single box. Where was the tea party box? Corporate: Can't handle the suits. My wardrobe = theater backstage. Sex: Maybe, but not lately. Out-to-Change-the-World: It's going to change with or without me. Bad Girl: Just a little too bad for my tastes. Princess: HAH! I rise at dawn and hate pink unless it's associated with sunrise or sunset.
resluts (bbraasch) Thu 8 Jul 04 17:04
from gopods energy to your typee fingers. I'll take it as a short pseud.
Rip Van Winkle (keta) Thu 8 Jul 04 19:51
Welcome <jal>, <ceder> and <rosebud>! (<bratwood> got shown the Vermillion SD light at a printmaking workshop there.) Couldn't tell what was in the book, eh? Well, the Trickster Interviewer has undone his job well!
Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Fri 9 Jul 04 11:56
Rosebud, Im happy you wanted to check out my books. Of course theres a wine Goddess and chocolate Goddess--you! Gemini = schizoid Goddess And thanks for all your kind words about the book!!! Francescas dictionary for Bad-Girl-Goddesses says: resluts: verb; to say oh, yes. Again and again. Omigoddess, did I leave tea parties out of the book, bratwood? I cant believe it. I am a tea party aficionado. Had a Bugs Bunny tea party recently to celebrate, um, something, I forget what. I dressed up in my (1930s?) beaded waltz length dress, we all ate scones, and watched old Looney Tunes. (Bugs Bunny is one of my Godsa trickster par excellence.) Keta, not to worry. Its not you. That keeps happening with what I write. I have a book rejection framed in my office. It says This book is too multifaceted for our executives. We could never get them to sell it. That was for another manuscript but same sort of deal. I lahv that yall are taking the quizzes. It cracks me up whenever anyone does that: My girlfriends, and even people interviewing me on radio shows, are so much fun for me to do the quizzes with. I hope I get to write more humor books.
(rosebud) Fri 9 Jul 04 12:14
Tea parties are lots of fun, especially with themes. I have been to a Mad Hatter's tea party and a Tacky Tea. Although the quizzes were fun to take, they were also very telling. I read the quizzes to sweetums last night and he guessed every one correctly that I had checked. This is good thing that he pays attention and knows me, but then again, should I be more mysterious and less predictable?
Rip Van Winkle (keta) Fri 9 Jul 04 20:06
That's a great rejection! Also, I think that there's a way of knowing that thrives on repeated glimpses and partial revelations. By the end of two weeks, I bet this topic will be a way better picture of what's in your book (and in it's alchemy with readers) that any summary or single statement could be, even if well thought out, even if created by a committee. And tea parties. Here's my formula for recreating the world. Take a certain percentage of all the conventions and conferences and retreats and intensives and workshops and in-depth-comprehensive-whatchamawhosits that happen in a given year, and designate them No Agenda Play Parties. Tea parties. Come to think of it, our country was founded with a tea party. (For a great take on that, read Last Refugue of Scoundrels (I'll get by who later)) And, Francesca, you didn't leave Tea Parties out of the book if we're to take you seriously and make up whatever games we want. So what's your favorite game that's in the book? My favorite is The Train Wreck Boogie. (Although setting it to the Battle Hymn of the Republic seems to bull on through pretty impressively). (In this game, she has some funny and practically unsingable lyrics, then she invites the player(s) to set them to any tune they want and try to sing it. It's not a technical challenge, it's a make-it-to-the-end-challenge.
from KATE RUDDLE (tnf) Fri 9 Jul 04 22:15
Kate Ruddle writes: Hi Francesca, This is Kate, the modern important Goddess ! (yeah!) with all the books, who came to your Borders Book signing Party! I just want to say thank you and all your students for all your insights that night! Yes - I am cultivating my inner Thankfull Goddess! You really are touched by the Goddess - and are amazing in your own right - I've been thinking about what you said ever since. I'm trying to cultivate my inner Janice Dickenson Bitch Goddess - not an easy path - but something that needs doing. So world watch out ! (EEK - I'm scared!- Well - O.K - I'm going slow) Humm--- Thankfull and Bitch Goddess - a strange combo.... As for the Princess Goddess - I was just looking at movies I want to rent and realized that my guilty pleasure in Legally Blond was its Princess Goddess appeal ! - A surprisingly good movie if you're feeling blue! And VERY PINK.... As for Tea - my favorite pink tea is red roses tea - very love goddess! -Kate
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