inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #76 of 91: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 14 Jul 04 10:48
    
Something about that quote.  With respect for Nurp, and for Luisah
Teish too, for that matter, when I read:

"Once I did an opera for the rain forest, and a little girl points at me
and asks her mother, 'Is that Mother Earth?' For her I was the planet. I
get chills when I think of it!"

I immediately thought of anyone performing in a pageant or show.  It's
great when a kid asks if you are Alice in Wonderland, Santa Claus or the
Wizard of Oz, too.  Total chills.  Possibly vanity, but wow it's good.   
It just doesn't mean that the kid doesn't get that you are performing --
playing a symbolic role the kid knows she could play too. Kids are smart. 

So, Francesca, do you think of your work in a political context?  Do 
you consider how your interior life reads to those who will assume right 
off the bat that you are their enemy?  

Is there any responsibility or concern around people who come back with 
harsh criticism, or is that their problem? 
 
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #77 of 91: (rosebud) Wed 14 Jul 04 10:58
    
>> flabby fart king 

He not only needs a blue book, but obviously a dose of Bean-o.  
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #78 of 91: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Wed 14 Jul 04 16:52
    
OK, it's been 6 hours, and I still can't reread

>I read what Nurp wrote and I was trying to envision a henpecked
flabby fart king reading a pink book.
 
and

>I think your book is easier to read if you don't clench it.

without laughing.

Er, welcome Nurp.

And welcome Kerridwen.  I’ve made it most of the way through one of
Francesca’s previous books, and yes, in both seriousness and humor, the
message that comes through is “No need to wait, y’all already got it.”
 That’s probably what prompted me to mention that Tiesh quote in the
first place.  (“Do what you can.  Use what you have.  Begin where you
are.”)  

In light of the juxtaposition of your post with Nurp's, I realise
something:  There is the naming the goddess that you are - the power in
that - and then there is OTHERS naming the goddess that they THINK you
are.  

I wonder how much grief in the world is caused by cases of mistaken
goddess identity.  Kerridwen is doing her job, accessing her power
through the idea of the Goddess She Who Finds and Fixes, and maybe one
person interacting with her is looking at her as She Who Finds and
Fixes, another is seeing perhaps a Sex Goddess, another a Mother,
another a potential shoe wiper.  Whoa.  

Now, Nurp, I wonder if your wife did see herself as a goddess if she
would hen-peck you less?  The compliment of goddess is not Flabby Fart
King, it's god.  Perhaps the God of Voluptuous Flesh And Earthy Rumbles
Below.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #79 of 91: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Thu 15 Jul 04 00:33
    
Gail, your question to Francesca, referring to "those who will assume
right off the bat that you are their enemy," reminds me of something I
heard Catherine Austin Fitts (www.solari.com) point out after the 2000
election.  

Here was the nation, divided almost precisely 50-50, and by what?  She
listed all the issues where the two parties had differentiated
themselves.  What was the thing all the issues had in common?  Not a
single one had anything to do with money.  The electorate had been
effectively polarized (paralyzed?) in such a fashion that nobody was
paying any attention to the money.  

All sorts of aspects of human variety, that ought to be responded to
with "Vive le difference!" or, "Let's discuss this," had become grounds
for rushing from eye-rolling to polemics, to knock-down-dragouts, and
hey, why not pogroms?  While the bandits made off with the store.  

Nurp, it seems to me that the "potent moral corrosive" being used as a
"weapon of imperial subjection to sap the resistance of indigenous
cultures and peoples everywhere" is not goddess-discussers, or
goddess-dismissers, or pseudo-indigeneity, it's divide-and-conquer. 
It's fanning the assumption that different=enemy.

When I commented:

>These modern goddesses aren't liberal or conservative, rich or poor,
religious or not.  It's fun to see goddesses everywhere, not defined or
separated by divisions we commonly cultivate or assume.

way back at the beginning of the interview, that was after spending an
afternoon cultivating skepticism - let's see what this book looks like
if I assume the idea of goddesses is really 'out there', but I go
around and try to look for them anyway.  

And the result was an almost magical healing of those "defining"
splits.  It was similar to riding BART after the '89 earthquake, when
the Bay Bridge was down - Joes with toolboxes next to society matrons
next to...

Magic, hmmm... now that could be the issue here.  Is magic real?
Francesca?
(gotta put a question or two in here somewhere)

The reason I ask is that it occurs to me that what Nurp may be
objecting to is people *pretending* magic is real, and if that's the
case, perhaps I agree.  

I remember one time sitting with a friend who was casually discussing
how his family regularly communicated by telepathy.  Mom just showed up
when needed.  People independently set out to meet each other in
remote cities.  I was listening, and all of a sudden it struck me,
"I've been working so hard to PRETEND that magic is real - when all the
while it IS real."

Here's a better phrasing of the question, "What's the difference
between magical thinking and real magic?  Between 'fairy tales' we let
ourselves be told, believe, (by Disney or the World Bank or Monsanto or
each other), and Real Fairy Tales?

Last week when I was only able to get on for 15 minutes a day, I was
off at a Family Camp.  300 folks in a little village in the woods, with
a staff of maybe 40 more, in their teens and 20s except two directors.
Kind of looked like a Survivor casting call.  

When my group got there, there were lots of problems and confusions
and difficulties to work out - all related to a computer error (yes,
THAT computer!) that had caused haphazard overbookings.  But you know
what there wasn't.  Nobody was Voted Off The Island.  It all worked
out.  Deals were made, sure, but they were folks sharing, staff housing
being opened up, hops and moves, and, "no, that's fine, after you." 
It was the magic of reality, not the manufactured myth of survival of
the fittest.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #80 of 91: Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Thu 15 Jul 04 08:19
    
Thanks for support, y’all. Whew.

Gail, great questions. Answers: I think BREATHING is political.
Refusing to die is a political act for some people.

I’m not Politically Correct. P.C is not radical enough for anarchist
me. It is classist and racist half the time.

Anyone who assumes I’m the enemy off the bat will hate whatever I say.
I try really really hard to make it clear to them anyway b/c that’s my
job as a human being.

As for criticism, I’m all for it. But not attack. Criticism helps me
change. Attack makes me cower or get defensive, which in turn makes it
hard for me to change.

Keta, I love your brain. Hmm, mistaken Goddess identity. Cool. Add
mistakes about what “Goddess” means EG a being who dominates rather
than a being who uplifts.

Keta, re divide and conquer, is magic real: there is no doubt in my
mind that magic is real, as real as a knife or a kiss. And I mean wave
your magic wand, poof, type of magic. I also think that one of the few
ways to get in touch with magic is TO pretend it is real. Each of us is
the magical cauldron, the magic wand, the altar. And modern books on
magic tend to leave imagination out as if magic were just a metaphor
for feminism or psychological states. Fairy tales touch the part of our
being that understand that very realness of magic. Think magically and
you tune into the possibility that magic is happening right now, in
every fiber of your being and all you have to do is learn how to use
it!

And I think that though I just now yaysayed something by using all the
words Keta did to naysay that same something, we likely think the same
thing, but we just used all the words differently. 
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #81 of 91: from NURP NIZZUM (tnf) Thu 15 Jul 04 16:30
    





Nurp's response to Gail WIlliams

Yes, there are the chills associated with the "thrills and chills" of
receiving a real audience's response to any kind of make-believe performance,
including Nurp Nizzum's maliciously rambunctous rant.

No doubt, chills of this order, be they sweet or be they bitter, are all
utterly delicious vanity at root.

But in the context of the biographical blurb in which they are represented,
the chills of which Luisah Teish speaks seem of a very different sort,
arising from a kind of at least doubled moral horror.

Hers seem the chills of a shocked, perhaps ever-reawakening to the awe-full,
personal responsibility that comes, invited or no, with effectively BEING
Mother Earth, BEING the planet for so many children and adults so thoroughly
"detached from their bodies and spirit" as to have no other conscious access
to Mother Earth, to their own being as part of the planet, than through her
own inevitably humbled words and performances...even in the midst of the
playful whimsy of an opera for the rainforest.

Yes, kids are smart in the midst of play. But our fate, which is also theirs,
is to need be so much more.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #82 of 91: from KERRIDWEN (tnf) Thu 15 Jul 04 16:31
    



KERRIDWEN writes:



Hi again!

As to working through the books, I also see a secular
therapist. Most people who have lived through the
abuses (incest, molestation, parents are both
alcoholics, my past drug/ alcohol abuse, etc.) are
going to need help in any way they can find!  : )  Iím
glad I have so many different forms of support.

On the flipside of my upbringing (ahem, moved out at
15), I really have no need up ìscaring upî folk
traditions.  My fatherís family is Irish.  They
(grandmother) moved in the late 1800ís to an area
called the Irish Wilderness.  Itís in Missouri.  They
had no electric, no running water, no modern
conveniences until the late 1960's.  They cooked on a
woodstove, farmed, and hunted even after electric was
brought there-who wants to wire a house?  I was raised
on a modern family farm.  Hungry?  I can go kill
something, dress it out, and cook it for you.  Before
killing it, Iíll give thanks to the animalís spirit
and once killed, assist it on.  While Iím preparing
the food, Iíll work what you most need (putting it
ìinî the food).  My motherís side were Russian Jews.
They came over around Civil War time.  They lived with
the freed blacks (where Jews ìbelongedî then).  My
great-grandmother was a Healer and people came to her.
 She read your tea leaves and my aunt will read your
cards-I can too.  I was *raised* with folk traditions
from the Irish and the Jewish/ Kabbalah.

Iím the daughter of an Ozark Hillbilly and proud!

I donít mind at all if someone comes along and spreads
how I was taught-itís better than adults not knowing
that cheese is from milk, milk is from cows, and cows
need to be watched for pink eye (what?  I know...).
This August Eve, my daddyíll go out and cut down the
corn.  If you ask him why, heíll say, ìItís how itís
done.î  I wish more people did it.  And yes, heíll
leave a few stalks up ìfor Them.î   What harm in
honoring all the things we receive and create?

False senses of power:  that never helped anyone, now
did it? Real power: true knowledge of the things one
can do; we all need love but ainít nothiní gonna fix
you but you.  Choices: 1) be afraid of what someone
else might do to you THEN run out and holler down
anybody or 2) look inside at your fears and find what
caused them.  Is it something that happened years ago
thatís still echoing in your head?  Is it something
you never even experienced but were told was ìgoing to
happen if?" THEN look for the things you can do for
yourself.  I know thereís something.   Change it.

Iím always sad for people who are so afraid.  I think
thatís why I like laughter so much!  Despite my
moniker, Iím seen as the gal whoís ìeasily amused.
And I like that!  I also like the Protective Mother
Cerridwen that I can be.

We can be anyone we want to be.  The book can help us
see who we are and who we might like to be more of.
Did I mention itís fun?
Blessings
Kerridwen
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #83 of 91: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Thu 15 Jul 04 17:20
    
ack! your host is now torn three ways...

this is the time when I'm supposed to casually mention that we've been
at it this for two weeks now, and the Inkwell spotlight will be moving
on...and thank our guest...and encourage everyone to stay on and talk
awhile amongst themselves...while making wrapping up noises and tucking
away loose ends...

but, damn, this is getting good - and I have so much to say, and I'll
bet Francesca does too...

but I'm supposed to go out and see Farenheit 911 tonight...

...what's a god to do!?

Well, I'll start with #1 and remind all you readers that if you have
anything you're burning to ask, now's the time to do it.  Remember, if
you want to know, probably somebody else does too.  (NOTE: Offsite
readers can email <inkwell-hosts@well.com> with your comments
or questions)

Now, off to the movies...
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #84 of 91: David Gans (tnf) Thu 15 Jul 04 18:01
    

Keep going!
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #85 of 91: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 15 Jul 04 18:28
    
Absolutely! The topic will remain open for conversation indefinitely, so
please feel free to continue.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #86 of 91: (rosebud) Thu 15 Jul 04 19:37
    
Yay!  I have enjoyed reading this topic.  In fact, if it had to end I
was going to suggest that we needed a goddess conference.  
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #87 of 91: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Fri 16 Jul 04 08:49
    
Let's see how many more visits Francesca is willing to do.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #88 of 91: Francesca De Grandis (zthirdrd) Fri 16 Jul 04 10:07
    
Luisah Teish’s awesome example has inspired me for many years. If any
of you don’t know her books, check them out. 

K, loved what you said re folk culture and growing up. Exactly! 

This topic has been so amazing for me. Thank you everyone! (That
includes you lurkers who joined in silently. Thank YOU for cradling the
space with your presence.) Dave always blows me away. And K’s recent
comment, well, I am always happy that so many of us reach similar
conclusions. We need to see our hard won realizations mirrored by other
people’s. I wish I could stay on since you’re keeping the topic going.
However, Computer use is not for me. I am doing these two weeks
despite doctor’s opinion. (“Bad” patients live longer.) 

Body weak, spirit strong. Thank you all--this is not rhetoric--for
keeping that spirit strong with this fabulous conversation. You are
Gods and Goddesses all!

Have a great time with the topic. Anyone who posted (except Fart King)
or visited, stay in touch. I mean that. And if you are on my emailing
list, please post my e-newsletters here. It is no subsitute for me
getting to read your posts, but it will at least make me feel I am
contributing a little something.

Speaking of which:
http://www.well.com/user/zthirdrd/WiccanMiscellany.html is my site,
which has among other things, articles and rituals.
http://www.well.com/user/zthirdrd/InfoForm.htm gets you on my emailing
list if you want my newsletters, and announcement of new books and
classes. 

However, after the newsletter that will go out in a day or so, I won’t
do any mailings for six months. In a few weeks, I am stopping work and
going into a major healing period until February. (Sigh, I live for my
work. But I have to do this-->) For those six months, it’s healer heal
thyself time. 

I am moving to Pennsylvania to lay on the forest ground and pray,
“Mother, do something with me. I need your help.” When the snow comes,
I am going to climb under my comforter and sleep, and sleep--the way
folks in the farming community to which I am moving have told me they
do all winter. I am already housebound--for two and a half years now,
because of my health--so a housebound winter is not intimidating to me.
(I do get out for walks. They are part of my physical therapy.) And I
grew up in snowy country. 

When spring comes, I will walk down the hill by my new home, past the
seed farm, and onto the Ernst Trail. I wonder what will be there.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #89 of 91: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Fri 16 Jul 04 10:45
    
Francesca, thank you so much for joining us, it's been a pleasure. And
thanks to you too, Dave, for so ably leading the conversation. This topic
will remain open indefinitely, so even if Francesca has to bow out to rest
her wrists, others are welcome to continue talking as long as you like.
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #90 of 91: Rip Van Winkle (keta) Fri 15 Apr 11 21:02
    
Was just speaking to Francesca recently and I thought WELL folks might
be interested in an update.

She did move from San Francisco to rural Pennsylvania.  Her health
problems continue, but she's published two books, is finishing another,
did a spoken word album, paints, blogs and teaches.  

Most of her teaching now is by telephone conference call.  Modern
shamanistic adaptation.  (Personal review: my favorite thing about the
conference call method of teaching is that it allows for deep listening
and holding silence.  We're such an interruptive culture, and I've
come to notice how much that's done by visual cue. In a conference call
class, you never know when another participant is done speaking, or is
just pausing, so there are delicious silences.)

The other cool thing she's doing is painting and showing/selling
online. See link below.

I know the etymology is all wrong, but as a punster I've always
enjoyed thinking of Pennsylvania as meaning "The Writer's Beautiful
Place" - get it - *PEN*-sylvania (groan!)  Now I know someone who's
made my bad joke come true.

So here's a rundown of current Francesca de Grandis links:

Main website:
http://www.outlawbunny.com/

Ye olde Wiccan website: 
http://www.well.com/user/zthirdrd/WiccanMiscellany.html 
 
Art:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/outlawbunny
Wild wonderful silk painting, beautiful beadwork, and eclectic other
stuff.

Blog:
http://www.outlawbunny.com/blog/ 

Newsletter:
http://www.outlawbunny.com/newsletter/ 

Classes:
http://www.outlawbunny.com/classes/

New Books:
The Ecstatic Goddess - - Wild Meditations, Lyrical Rituals, and Earth
Sexuality for the Pagan Heart
http://etsy.me/dNBrgL  
This is self-publishing at it's best: it's as if your brilliant
professor/writer/teacher friend said, "Let me tell you what I *really*
know," and shoved a bunch of poems, notes and stories into a big manila
envelope and sent them to you.

Be a Teen Goddess: 
http://bit.ly/edLU4N
Readable by an actual teen.

Spoken Word Album
Bardic Alchemy:
http://etsy.me/aW0Cgm
I haven't heard, but Francesca is so enthused about it - and thrilled
she actually DID IT - that I'm sure it's wonderful. 

>When spring comes, I will walk down the hill by my new home, past the
seed farm, and onto the Ernst Trail. I wonder what will be there.

So this is what she found...

 
  
inkwell.vue.218 : Francesca De Grandis, "The Modern Goddess' Guide to Life"
permalink #91 of 91: Linda Castellani (castle) Sun 17 Apr 11 18:07
    

Thanks for the update.
  



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