inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #151 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 12 Jan 05 18:14
    

>>
It could be that individual genius is... overrated. We don't know the
extent to which geniuses in the past were influenced by others within
their personal networks, after all.
>>

So Galileo made gumbo from the collection of memes around him rather
than just hanging out testing, observing and thinking? Could be. I
think we need the networked mind and the individual who disconnects
sometimes for a lone mission...

I love gumbo.  It must be dinner time...
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #152 of 173: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 05 21:04
    
It's the okra, I dig it, too.

As Americans we're brainwashed to accept the myth of the rugged
individualist, even more so here in Texas. However the older I get, the
harder it is for me to see how that vision is healthy. It appears to
me that functional groups produce great thinking and great work,
however attractive or charismatic individuals often win all the points
for the efforts of their teams... and the blame when their teams fail.

Now we have theories of intellectual property that separate a creation
from its social context and refuse to give back to future works, and
though it's often corporate groups that take final ownership of the IP,
that's still an effect of assigning ownership to the individual and
ignoring the relevance of influential others. And we have a politics
that focuses on individual leaders even though much of the real work of
governance is done by others.

(I'm half asleep, so I better quit while I'm ahead...)
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #153 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 13 Jan 05 01:50
    
I see the effectiveness of both <151> and <152> in a symbiotic
relationship. Interconnected collaboration is the way of the future.
However, the lone wolfs should be enabled to play an important role.
They think both away from the box of collaboration as well as outside
of the box and their perspectives are important for the dialogues. They
are the spice in the gumbo.

Whatever structures develop, they should afford and enable that
interaction. There's plenty of room in the Internet kitchen.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #154 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Thu 13 Jan 05 10:12
    

I'd rather read a Bruce Sterling novel than a Bruce Sterling Open
Source collaboration.  Sometimes it works one way, sometimes the
other...
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #155 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 13 Jan 05 11:38
    
Well sure, but you read a novel, and it stirs your imagination, but
open source collaboration is where you might be able to actually cook.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #156 of 173: Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Wed 19 Jan 05 23:25
    

Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source 
collaboration.  At least when I look at my tastes in music
they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive
ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many
cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of 
such stories.

Perhaps this penchant for 'authorship' is just a passing foible in
human history?
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #157 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 20 Jan 05 02:04
    
Nice.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #158 of 173: David Adam Edelstein (davadam) Thu 20 Jan 05 07:43
    
yeah, huh.  You may have just nailed my wide-ranging musical tastes by
looking at it from the side, as it were.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #159 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Thu 20 Jan 05 11:36
    


>>

Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source 
collaboration.  At least when I look at my tastes in music
they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive
ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many
cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of 
such stories.
>>

Give me some examples in rock music.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #160 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 20 Jan 05 20:30
    
Almost all of Eric Clapton's early music was collaboration. It was
very common in those days for the two or three acts on a tour to all
come on the stage together and play. I remember an old Joy of Cooking,
Leo Kottke, James Gang concert where that happened and they were truly
amazed with and by each other. Fantastic.

Joe Walsh left the James Gang to go to be with the Eagles and that
collaboration changed a lot of things. Of course, the industry had to
figured in and eventually ruined it for that sort of thing, but...it
was happening. Harder in the Rock World because of all the money.
Easier in the Jazz World.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #161 of 173: David Gans (tnf) Fri 21 Jan 05 10:10
    

The "jam band" world that I travel in sometimes has a lot of sitting in and
collaboration.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #162 of 173: Jim Klopfenstein (klopfens) Fri 21 Jan 05 11:16
    
What <156> made me think of was garage bands doing covers of covers of
covers.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #163 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Fri 21 Jan 05 12:49
    
>


Perhaps this penchant for 'authorship' is just a passing foible in
human history?


>>

I guess I like a little of both. I remember when people were trying to
press the rave ideology on Mondo 2000, truly the death of the romantic
artistic individual making a statement.  I liked some of what I heard
but I didn't want to listen to it all day.  I wanted to hear a voice,
and all that implies.  The more the ravers were pressing electronica on
us, the more a bunch of us became obsesses with listening to Elvis
Costello.  
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #164 of 173: pre-beta Alpha males goes gold (nukem777) Fri 21 Jan 05 16:28
    
Yeah, I think we are all striving for a happy median (and medium).
Sometimes I want to be a team player (not often, according to some),
sometimes I want to toot my own horn, other times just jam, blah, blah.

It is now technologically possible to do all this on the Net, with any
like-minded soul(s). Why not?
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #165 of 173: from JOHN SABLE (tnf) Sat 22 Jan 05 17:24
    



John Sable writes:


>>

Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source
collaboration.  At least when I look at my tastes in music
they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive
ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many
cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of
such stories.
>>
>
Give me some examples in rock music.
>

Pigface and Brian Jonestown Massacre. While Pigface's collaborative input
produces unique and fun pieces of music, BJM is served to a pedagogical
detriment and Newcombe sent them scrambling for other projects.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #166 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Sat 22 Jan 05 20:43
    
Nice, John.

The pity of the novel, as a form of communication, is that the markets
have co-opted the medium. Also, who's got that kind of time
anymore.?Very few of us.

Thanks for the head's up.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #167 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Mon 7 Feb 05 20:16
    


I'm running three conversations over three weeks on Counterculture,
Commodity and Social Change at http://www.rawstory.com, the first one
is with Tom Frank
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #168 of 173: It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Tue 8 Feb 05 01:01
    
sweet, thanks
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #169 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Tue 15 Feb 05 15:57
    



Part Two in a Three Part interview series on Counterculture,
Commodification & Social Change, a conversation with Joseph Heath,
author of Nation of Rebels:  How Counterculture Became Consumer Culture
is online now at

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=75

I happen to think this one is the stronger one, but then that's just
me.  
RU
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #170 of 173: RUSirius (rusirius) Mon 21 Mar 05 15:53
    

If you happen to be nearby, I’d love to see ya…

COUNTERCULTURE TODAY: HOW TO TELL YOUR FRIENDS FROM THE ROBOTS


APRIL 7, 2005
LEHIGH UNIVERSITY, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania

4:10 PM
Thursday, April 7
102 Maginnes Hall
Lehigh University, 27 Memorial Drive West, Bethlehem, Pa.

Free

Co-Sponsored by: the Humanities Center, ArtsLehigh, and the Religion
Studies Department:  For more information contact: 610 758-3364
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #171 of 173: Gail Williams (gail) Mon 21 Mar 05 16:25
    
Great title!
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #172 of 173: snarly (obizuth) Mon 21 Mar 05 17:23
    
totally.
  
inkwell.vue.233 : R.U. Sirius: Counterculture Through the Ages
permalink #173 of 173: Ed Ward (captward) Thu 15 Nov 12 07:02
    
Because of spam going through the comments function, I'm freezing this
topic. 

Since Inkwell policy is for all discussions to stay open, if someone
who isn't a spammer would like to make a comment, send an e-mail to
capt ward  at well dot com (with the first two words as one) and I'll
open it back up. 

Thanks for your understanding. 
  



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