RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 12 Jan 05 18:14
>> It could be that individual genius is... overrated. We don't know the extent to which geniuses in the past were influenced by others within their personal networks, after all. >> So Galileo made gumbo from the collection of memes around him rather than just hanging out testing, observing and thinking? Could be. I think we need the networked mind and the individual who disconnects sometimes for a lone mission... I love gumbo. It must be dinner time...
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 12 Jan 05 21:04
It's the okra, I dig it, too. As Americans we're brainwashed to accept the myth of the rugged individualist, even more so here in Texas. However the older I get, the harder it is for me to see how that vision is healthy. It appears to me that functional groups produce great thinking and great work, however attractive or charismatic individuals often win all the points for the efforts of their teams... and the blame when their teams fail. Now we have theories of intellectual property that separate a creation from its social context and refuse to give back to future works, and though it's often corporate groups that take final ownership of the IP, that's still an effect of assigning ownership to the individual and ignoring the relevance of influential others. And we have a politics that focuses on individual leaders even though much of the real work of governance is done by others. (I'm half asleep, so I better quit while I'm ahead...)
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 13 Jan 05 01:50
I see the effectiveness of both <151> and <152> in a symbiotic relationship. Interconnected collaboration is the way of the future. However, the lone wolfs should be enabled to play an important role. They think both away from the box of collaboration as well as outside of the box and their perspectives are important for the dialogues. They are the spice in the gumbo. Whatever structures develop, they should afford and enable that interaction. There's plenty of room in the Internet kitchen.
RUSirius (rusirius) Thu 13 Jan 05 10:12
I'd rather read a Bruce Sterling novel than a Bruce Sterling Open Source collaboration. Sometimes it works one way, sometimes the other...
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 13 Jan 05 11:38
Well sure, but you read a novel, and it stirs your imagination, but open source collaboration is where you might be able to actually cook.
Darrell Jonsson (jonsson) Wed 19 Jan 05 23:25
Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source collaboration. At least when I look at my tastes in music they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of such stories. Perhaps this penchant for 'authorship' is just a passing foible in human history?
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 20 Jan 05 02:04
David Adam Edelstein (davadam) Thu 20 Jan 05 07:43
yeah, huh. You may have just nailed my wide-ranging musical tastes by looking at it from the side, as it were.
RUSirius (rusirius) Thu 20 Jan 05 11:36
>> Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source collaboration. At least when I look at my tastes in music they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of such stories. >> Give me some examples in rock music.
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Thu 20 Jan 05 20:30
Almost all of Eric Clapton's early music was collaboration. It was very common in those days for the two or three acts on a tour to all come on the stage together and play. I remember an old Joy of Cooking, Leo Kottke, James Gang concert where that happened and they were truly amazed with and by each other. Fantastic. Joe Walsh left the James Gang to go to be with the Eagles and that collaboration changed a lot of things. Of course, the industry had to figured in and eventually ruined it for that sort of thing, but...it was happening. Harder in the Rock World because of all the money. Easier in the Jazz World.
David Gans (tnf) Fri 21 Jan 05 10:10
The "jam band" world that I travel in sometimes has a lot of sitting in and collaboration.
Jim Klopfenstein (klopfens) Fri 21 Jan 05 11:16
What <156> made me think of was garage bands doing covers of covers of covers.
RUSirius (rusirius) Fri 21 Jan 05 12:49
> Perhaps this penchant for 'authorship' is just a passing foible in human history? >> I guess I like a little of both. I remember when people were trying to press the rave ideology on Mondo 2000, truly the death of the romantic artistic individual making a statement. I liked some of what I heard but I didn't want to listen to it all day. I wanted to hear a voice, and all that implies. The more the ravers were pressing electronica on us, the more a bunch of us became obsesses with listening to Elvis Costello.
pre-beta Alpha males goes gold (nukem777) Fri 21 Jan 05 16:28
Yeah, I think we are all striving for a happy median (and medium). Sometimes I want to be a team player (not often, according to some), sometimes I want to toot my own horn, other times just jam, blah, blah. It is now technologically possible to do all this on the Net, with any like-minded soul(s). Why not?
from JOHN SABLE (tnf) Sat 22 Jan 05 17:24
John Sable writes: >> Much of the most vital Jazz & Rock are a type of open source collaboration. At least when I look at my tastes in music they tend to be away from the autuer based recordings. Interactive ever-mutating storytelling seems as well to be the center of many cultures. The origin of the novel is simply in the aggragate of such stories. >> > Give me some examples in rock music. > Pigface and Brian Jonestown Massacre. While Pigface's collaborative input produces unique and fun pieces of music, BJM is served to a pedagogical detriment and Newcombe sent them scrambling for other projects.
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Sat 22 Jan 05 20:43
Nice, John. The pity of the novel, as a form of communication, is that the markets have co-opted the medium. Also, who's got that kind of time anymore.?Very few of us. Thanks for the head's up.
RUSirius (rusirius) Mon 7 Feb 05 20:16
I'm running three conversations over three weeks on Counterculture, Commodity and Social Change at http://www.rawstory.com, the first one is with Tom Frank
It's a new sun to me (nukem777) Tue 8 Feb 05 01:01
RUSirius (rusirius) Tue 15 Feb 05 15:57
Part Two in a Three Part interview series on Counterculture, Commodification & Social Change, a conversation with Joseph Heath, author of Nation of Rebels: How Counterculture Became Consumer Culture is online now at http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=75 I happen to think this one is the stronger one, but then that's just me. RU
RUSirius (rusirius) Mon 21 Mar 05 15:53
If you happen to be nearby, Id love to see ya COUNTERCULTURE TODAY: HOW TO TELL YOUR FRIENDS FROM THE ROBOTS APRIL 7, 2005 LEHIGH UNIVERSITY, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania 4:10 PM Thursday, April 7 102 Maginnes Hall Lehigh University, 27 Memorial Drive West, Bethlehem, Pa. Free Co-Sponsored by: the Humanities Center, ArtsLehigh, and the Religion Studies Department: For more information contact: 610 758-3364
Gail Williams (gail) Mon 21 Mar 05 16:25
snarly (obizuth) Mon 21 Mar 05 17:23
Ed Ward (captward) Thu 15 Nov 12 07:02
Because of spam going through the comments function, I'm freezing this topic. Since Inkwell policy is for all discussions to stay open, if someone who isn't a spammer would like to make a comment, send an e-mail to capt ward at well dot com (with the first two words as one) and I'll open it back up. Thanks for your understanding.
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