Howard Levine (hll) Wed 22 Jun 05 10:17
Hi Scott - maybe this is a little naive, but I'm a long time Netscape user - any advantages in Ff vs. Ntscape?
from JOHN McBREARTY (tnf) Thu 23 Jun 05 11:35
John McBrearty writes: I like Firefox over IE. However, when I try to use the "scroll band" on the right side of my HP laptop's touchpad, in Firefox I just see a little "scrolling icon" (little picture with up and down arrows) but I get no scroll. In IE and other apps, the "scroll band" on the touchpad works fine. Any ideas? Thanks, John
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Thu 23 Jun 05 16:19
My iBook came yesterday, so now I can stay on-track with this conversation (and others.) I'm a new Mac user, and had some anxiety about the switch -- but so far Firefox works pretty much the same. Except for my favorite extension, Spellbound. When I try to download it, I get this message: "Firefox could not download the file at "http://exchangecode.com/spellbound/downloads/spellbound_lib_mac_1.0. "because: Out of space" Say what? I still have 60 GB! Other extensions have installed without problems -- and I appreciated being able to go to the book and check on recommendations. Oh dear. Can't spell-check this post . . .
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Thu 23 Jun 05 16:20
OK, so I *could* have spellchecked the post. I'm so used to using spellbound that I completely forgot there is an integrated spellcheck on the Well.
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 07:36
OK Scott, I'm being hounded over in the Well's Experts topic to come over here and ask a question I've been dealing with over there. I've been using Firefox for a while with very little trouble. Oh occasionally there is something that misbehaves, but it has usually been tolerable. Recently, however, I made the mistake of clicking the 'Remember my ID on this computer' link on Yahoo Mail. Oh, how I wish I hadn't done that. Even after unchecking that box, the trouble persists. The Trouble: EVERYTIME (and I mean EVERYTIME) I attempt to log in to Yahoo Mail, I immediately get another prompt to login. (This is the login you would usually get after a period of inactivity - but I am getting it immediately after logging in.) But that's not all, folks! After completing the 2nd login prompt, I get yet another login prompt EVERYTIME - this one requires that I interpret a sort garbled text-numeric string and enter it. (This is one of those anti-spam logins.) This means that EVERY login to Yahoo Mail requires three successive logins, including one unscramble routine. I can login to Yahoo Mail without incident using the ANOTHER (evil) blue browser. I have deinstalled/reinstalled Firefix 1.0.4 (many times over) I have cleared ALL cookies/history/etc. several times over. I have given up and now use the blue browser for Yahoo Mail. Is there any hope. (And why/how does Firefox remember my bookmark/cookie info inbetween reinstalls. I have fulled deleted EVERYthing in the Firefox folder after removing the application via Control Panel, only to have cookies and bookmarks and such still be there.)
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 07:55
I should add that at <loren-rosen>'s suggestion, I have tried first logging in to My Yahoo. That seemed to work in getting me in, but then I ran into an intermittent problem of a partly disabled Yahho Maill enviroment - where many of the butttons (Reply/Foward/etc) did not work. I may be jinxed.
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:06
(chrys), I have two friends who have abandoned their Yahoo mail accounts over this kind of behavior -- on IE. One simply tired of having to sign in again and again; another just couldn't get in at all one day. I get in through Yahoo 360.
Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:21
Firefox puts all user preferences (including cookies, browser cache, and so on) in a hidden folder in your home directory. If you want to start over, you can do that by deleting the profile folder, not reinstalling Firefox. This page explains how to find the profile folder: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile#locate
beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:34
and correct me if i'm wrong here, but uninstalling FF doesn't delete that directory, right? so chrys may not have 'started over' entirely.
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:46
Oh, I'm fully aware that re-installing hasn't resulted in entirely starting over. The fact that bookmarks and such were all there was suficient evidence. Brian, if I delete everything in that folder that holds the Firefox preferences, will Firefox re-build it the next time I begin the application? Or do I need to de-install - again - delete that folder and re-install? <(chrys), I have two friends who have abandoned their Yahoo mail accounts over this kind of behavior -- on IE.> You have *friends* that still use IE? ;)
Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:02
> Brian, if I delete everything in that folder that holds the Firefox > preferences, will Firefox re-build it the next time I begin the > application? Or do I need to de-install - again - delete that folder > and re-install? I had issues under mozilla with that before I intalled firefox. I think you'll be ok. If not, you could try renaming Application DataMozillaFirefoxprofiles.ini and I'd guess firefox will start over for you. If I were in your shoes, I would save all the critical files under your profile such as bookmarks.html somewhere else.
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:11
OK, I removed, deleted the app data folder (copying my bookmarks elsewhere) and started over. Oddly enough, though that appeared to solve the problem, when I reintroduced my bookmarks, the problem returned. It transpires that the bookmark link I was using was contributing to the problem (I am not sure it was entirely responsible and there is no way for me to figure it out, nor do I care to.) The bookmark in question must have been established *during* a yahoo mail session, rather than at the beginning. So it wasn't a direct link to the Yahoo Mail login. It was a link to an *active* Yahoo Mail session - and as a result, was activating some login verification. I must have set up some odd condition when I checked the 'remember my login' box - that in concert with the way I was approaching Yahoo resulted in the triple login prompt. I hope that explanation makes sense. Whew! I'm glad that is over.
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:12
Oh, and thanks Brian, you showed me the right door to gaining more data to solve the problem.
Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:18
If anyone cares to know the difference between the two links: This was the one I had been using that resulted in the problem http://mail.yahoo.com/?.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f200.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2flogin This one works: http://mail.yahoo.com/?.intl=us They both appear to get you to the same place, but do so very differently
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:38
>>You have *friends* that still use IE? Sadly, yes. Despite my best efforts. The friends that actually have me set up their machines, however, use Firefox. It's one of my hopes for this book -- another encouragement for tech-shy folks to venture out a bit. Odd, isn't it -- that what they find scary is actually safer. Not to mention way more fun.
Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:03
> flogin I first read that as flogging.
Dan Mitchell (mitchell) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:13
Why is there no username/password-saving feature in Firefox?
Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:20
But there is.
beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Fri 24 Jun 05 12:50
click on tools/options/privacy/passwords and check the box that says Save Passwords or Remember Passwords, actually
Dan Mitchell (mitchell) Fri 24 Jun 05 14:31
Thanks. I thought there might be a way to do it.
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Fri 24 Jun 05 14:55
Hello, everyone. Sorry I haven't been responding - I've been teaching a 5-day intensive class at Washington University in St. Louis this week called "Technology for Non-Technical Managers", & then teaching other courses in the evening. It's been a busy, tiring week! As I've taught the class this week, it's been interesting to me how receptive people are to the idea of another web browser, and, in fact, another operating system. It seems to me that a lot of people really want an alternative to MSFT, for any of a number of reasons: * dissatisfaction with the software's quality or features * ethical problems with company's business practices * security lapses that have caused problems * a general sense that MSFT's monopolistic control over computers, data, & networks is a bad thing Interestingly, though, even though people are generally aware that something isn't right, most have no idea (still!) that there *are* alternatives! They haven't heard of Linux, or they think that the Mac is something no one uses anymore, or that it's too alien to be used, or they simply aren't aware that Firefox, or OpenOffice.org, or the GIMP, or other open source programs that will just fine on Windows exist. But boy, when you let 'em know about alternatives, they sure are interested! So, I have a couple of questions for you folks: Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open sources programs have not? Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any other open source programs? What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why not? Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If so, which ones? I've had a great week teaching my class(es), and now I'm excited to be fully engaged with the wonderful people at the WELL again. Let's talk!
Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:01
> Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open > sources programs have not? It's so much better than IE and easy to use. Other products have a much greater learning curve so people don't bother. > Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any other > open source programs? Yes, long term linux and the Mac, thunderbird and others will at least force them to pay attention. History tells us that Microsoft will get bloated, inefficient and gradually fade from the scene. That could take a while, of course. I'd guess one generation of Bill Gates is gone is about the right time for serious cracks to appear. > What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why not? When people start discussing computers, there is a scope for me to mention it. At work, even in spite of a corporate a IE dictum and programs that look for and mandate IE, I use plugins to lie and people see me being able to do things they have trouble doing. > Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If > so, which ones? It was the other way for me. I was using Mozilla since an early release, openoffice when it was really ugly and some other stuff. Even before that, I've been using perl since 4.36 and other development stuff. Of course, I'm a geek (or nerd), so I'm not typical.
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:28
>>Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open sources programs have not? It's easy to download; security issues with IE are more widely known; it's 'cool'. >>Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any other open source programs? I think so, but I'm no expert in these areas. It seems to me, though, that the more folks use Ff, the more likely they are to check out other options -- and that has to threaten Microsoft's ubiquity. >>What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why not? Everything I can. Folks who have me help set up their [Windows] computers get Ff, no discussion. I just tell them that if they want my help, they need to reduce security issues to the minimum -- and besides, Ff is more fun. >>Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If so, which ones? I tried using Gimp, managed to download it but couldn't get it installed. I think that's the key, really -- it has to be at least *relatively* easy to figure out, so folks like me can manage it.
Gail Williams (gail) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:32
The early passion was so intersting. I went to Online Community Summit, (run by Jim Cashel of ForumOne and Online Community Reports), and one of the presentors said in his bossy "teacher voice" that we all should be using Firefox, only. I thought "that's audacious." But as a Netscape/Mozilla person, it was the next step for me anyway. Greasemonkey got me, though. Once you are using the RSS bookmarking, and have added the Greasmonkey capability, your other browsers look ...broken. Begin able to use FireFox to bookmark the home page at Salon.com and get a lovely little pull-down bookmark that gives all the current stories as headline links lets me see what I might want to read. The Flickr community is huge on using RSS and on community invention -- so when I started seeing all the references to Greasemonkey and special plugins I got interested... and then the tipping point was the geotagging of pictures. I only do it for a few images, but I love the concept. So for that large, social group who posts images often and makes contacts with other photographers, suddenly there is a cool trick to do, and people are telling one another to do it. Driving practical toybuilding is a wonderful way to get people to try things. Here's the geotagging thing, and a explantion of what it is: http://www.geobloggers.com/ Try putting in latitude and longitude, or a zipcode, and you may find photos take nearby by all kinds of people. And a sample of a geotagged image from mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gail/19450769/ (I see a greasemonkeyed -- that is, not staff designed -- button on my Flickr pages for adding a geotag next to the regular add tags link! The Flickr staff didn't do that, but you can bet they are learning and thinking as people play.) (So I think that IT staffers figured out this was fun to play with and then wanted everyone in their company to be in FireFox so they could use it themselves for fun. I think that's more motivating than simply being better than the old familiar (for many) IE.)
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:58
S*L*J*O - I'm curious (not critical): why aren't you using tabs? No interest, or you don't need it, or you think it's silly, or you like lots of windows everywhere :), or what? I'm interested, since Ff has really trumpeted tabs as a feature, so much so that MSFT is responding (finally!) by adding tabs to IE. Thanks!
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