inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #51 of 110: Howard Levine (hll) Wed 22 Jun 05 10:17
    
 Hi Scott - maybe this is a little naive, but I'm a long time Netscape user
- any advantages in Ff vs. Ntscape?
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #52 of 110: from JOHN McBREARTY (tnf) Thu 23 Jun 05 11:35
    


John McBrearty writes:



I like Firefox over IE.  However, when I try to use the "scroll band" on the
right side of my HP laptop's touchpad, in Firefox I just see a little
"scrolling icon" (little picture with up and down arrows) but I get no
scroll.

In IE and other apps, the "scroll band" on the touchpad works fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

John
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #53 of 110: Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Thu 23 Jun 05 16:19
    
My iBook came yesterday, so now I can stay on-track with this
conversation (and others.) I'm a new Mac user, and had some anxiety
about the switch -- but so far Firefox works pretty much the same. 

Except for my favorite extension, Spellbound. When I try to download
it, I get this message:

"Firefox could not download the file at 

"http://exchangecode.com/spellbound/downloads/spellbound_lib_mac_1.0.

"because: Out of space"

Say what? I still have 60 GB! 

Other extensions have installed without problems -- and I appreciated
being able to go to the book and check on recommendations. 

Oh dear. Can't spell-check this post . . . 
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #54 of 110: Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Thu 23 Jun 05 16:20
    
OK, so I *could* have spellchecked the post. I'm so used to using
spellbound that I completely forgot there is an integrated spellcheck
on the Well.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #55 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 07:36
    
OK Scott, I'm being hounded over in the Well's Experts topic to come
over here and ask a question I've been dealing with over there. 

I've been using Firefox for a while with very little trouble.  Oh
occasionally there is something that misbehaves, but it has usually
been tolerable.

Recently, however, I made the mistake of clicking the 'Remember my ID
on this computer' link on Yahoo Mail. Oh, how I wish I hadn't done
that.  Even after unchecking that box, the trouble persists.

The Trouble:  EVERYTIME (and I mean EVERYTIME) I attempt to log in to
Yahoo Mail, I immediately get another prompt to login. (This is the
login you would usually get after a period of inactivity - but I am
getting it immediately after logging in.)  

But that's not all, folks!

After completing the 2nd login prompt, I get yet another login prompt
EVERYTIME - this one requires that I interpret a sort garbled
text-numeric string and enter it.  (This is one of those anti-spam
logins.) 

This means that EVERY login to Yahoo Mail requires three successive
logins, including one unscramble routine.

I can login to Yahoo Mail without incident using the ANOTHER (evil)
blue browser.

I have deinstalled/reinstalled Firefix 1.0.4 (many times over) I have
cleared ALL cookies/history/etc. several times over. I have given up
and now use the blue browser for Yahoo Mail. 

Is there any hope. (And why/how does Firefox remember my
bookmark/cookie info inbetween reinstalls.  I have fulled deleted
EVERYthing in the Firefox folder after removing the application via
Control Panel, only to have cookies and bookmarks and such still be
there.)
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #56 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 07:55
    
I should add that at <loren-rosen>'s suggestion, I have tried first
logging in to My Yahoo.  That seemed to work in getting me in, but then
I ran into an intermittent problem of a partly disabled Yahho Maill
enviroment - where many of the butttons (Reply/Foward/etc) did not
work.

I may be jinxed.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #57 of 110: Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:06
    
(chrys), I have two friends who have abandoned their Yahoo mail
accounts over this kind of behavior -- on IE. One simply tired of
having to sign in again and again; another just couldn't get in at all
one day. 

I get in through Yahoo 360. 
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #58 of 110: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:21
    
Firefox puts all user preferences (including cookies, browser cache,
and so on) in a hidden folder in your home directory.  If you want to
start over, you can do that by deleting the profile folder, not
reinstalling Firefox.

This page explains how to find the profile folder:

http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile#locate
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #59 of 110: beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:34
    
and correct me if i'm wrong here, but uninstalling FF doesn't delete that
directory, right? so chrys may not have 'started over' entirely.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #60 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 09:46
    
Oh, I'm fully aware that re-installing hasn't resulted in entirely
starting over.  The fact that bookmarks and such were all there was
suficient evidence.


Brian, if I delete everything in that folder that holds the Firefox
preferences, will Firefox re-build it the next time I begin the
application?  Or do I need to de-install - again - delete that folder
and re-install?


<(chrys), I have two friends who have abandoned their Yahoo mail
accounts over this kind of behavior -- on IE.>

You have *friends* that still use IE?  ;)
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #61 of 110: Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:02
    

> Brian, if I delete everything in that folder that holds the Firefox
> preferences, will Firefox re-build it the next time I begin the
> application?  Or do I need to de-install - again - delete that folder
> and re-install?

I had issues under mozilla with that before I intalled firefox.  I think
you'll be ok. If not, you could try renaming Application
DataMozillaFirefoxprofiles.ini and I'd guess firefox will start over
for you.

If I were in your shoes, I would save all the critical files under your
profile such as bookmarks.html somewhere else.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #62 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:11
    
OK, I removed, deleted the app data folder (copying my bookmarks
elsewhere) and started over.  

Oddly enough, though that appeared to solve the problem, when I
reintroduced my bookmarks, the problem returned.

It transpires that the bookmark link I was using was contributing to
the problem (I am not sure it was entirely responsible and there is no
way for me to figure it out, nor do I care to.)

The bookmark in question must have been established *during* a yahoo
mail session, rather than at the beginning.  So it wasn't a direct link
to the Yahoo Mail login.  It was a link to an *active* Yahoo Mail
session - and as a result, was activating some login verification.

I must have set up some odd condition when I checked the 'remember my
login' box - that in concert with the way I was approaching Yahoo
resulted in the triple login prompt.

I hope that explanation makes sense. 

Whew!  I'm glad that is over.
 
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #63 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:12
    
Oh, and thanks Brian, you showed me the right door to gaining more
data to solve the problem.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #64 of 110: Kindness does not require an infrastructure (chrys) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:18
    

If anyone cares to know the difference between the two links:

This was the one I had been using that resulted in the problem
http://mail.yahoo.com/?.done=http%3a%2f%2fus.f200.mail.yahoo.com%2fym%2flogin

This one works:
http://mail.yahoo.com/?.intl=us

They both appear to get you to the same place, but do so very
differently
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #65 of 110: Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 10:38
    
>>You have *friends* that still use IE?

Sadly, yes. Despite my best efforts. The friends that actually have me
set up their machines, however, use Firefox. 

It's one of my hopes for this book -- another encouragement for
tech-shy folks to venture out a bit. 

Odd, isn't it -- that what they find scary is actually safer. Not to
mention way more fun. 
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #66 of 110: Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:03
    

> flogin

I first read that as flogging.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #67 of 110: Dan Mitchell (mitchell) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:13
    
Why is there no username/password-saving feature in Firefox?
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #68 of 110: Dennis Wilen (the-voidmstr) Fri 24 Jun 05 11:20
    
But there is.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #69 of 110: beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Fri 24 Jun 05 12:50
    
click on tools/options/privacy/passwords and check the box that says Save
Passwords

or Remember Passwords, actually
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #70 of 110: Dan Mitchell (mitchell) Fri 24 Jun 05 14:31
    
Thanks. I thought there might be a way to do it.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #71 of 110: Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Fri 24 Jun 05 14:55
    
Hello, everyone. Sorry I haven't been responding - I've been teaching
a 5-day intensive class at Washington University in St. Louis this week
called "Technology for Non-Technical Managers", & then teaching other
courses in the evening. It's been a busy, tiring week!

As I've taught the class this week, it's been interesting to me how
receptive people are to the idea of another web browser, and, in fact,
another operating system. It seems to me that a lot of people really
want an alternative to MSFT, for any of a number of reasons:

* dissatisfaction with the software's quality or features
* ethical problems with company's business practices
* security lapses that have caused problems
* a general sense that MSFT's monopolistic control over computers,
data, & networks is a bad thing

Interestingly, though, even though people are generally aware that
something isn't right, most have no idea (still!) that there *are*
alternatives! They haven't heard of Linux, or they think that the Mac
is something no one uses anymore, or that it's too alien to be used, or
they simply aren't aware that Firefox, or OpenOffice.org, or the GIMP,
or other open source programs that will just fine on Windows exist. 

But boy, when you let 'em know about alternatives, they sure are
interested!

So, I have a couple of questions for you folks:

Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open
sources programs have not?

Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any other
open source programs? 

What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why not? 

Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If
so, which ones?

I've had a great week teaching my class(es), and now I'm excited to be
fully engaged with the wonderful people at the WELL again. Let's talk!
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #72 of 110: Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:01
    

> Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open
> sources programs have not?

It's so much better than IE and easy to use. Other products have a
much greater learning curve so people don't bother.
  
> Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any other
> open source programs? 

Yes, long term linux and the Mac, thunderbird and others will at least
force them to pay attention. History tells us that Microsoft will get
bloated, inefficient and gradually fade from the scene. That could
take a while, of course. I'd guess one generation of Bill Gates is
gone is about the right time for serious cracks to appear.

> What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why not? 

When people start discussing computers, there is a scope for me to mention
it. At work, even in spite of a corporate a IE dictum and programs that
look for and mandate IE, I use plugins to lie and people see me being able
to do things they have trouble doing.

> Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If >
so, which ones?

It was the other way for me. I was using Mozilla since an early release,
openoffice when it was really ugly and some other stuff. Even before that,
I've been using perl since 4.36 and other development stuff. Of course,
I'm a geek (or nerd), so I'm not typical.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #73 of 110: Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:28
    
>>Why do you think Firefox is finally succeeding where other open
sources programs have not?

It's easy to download; security issues with IE are more widely known;
it's 'cool'.

>>Do you think MSFT faces any long term threats from Ff? From any
other open source programs? 

I think so, but I'm no expert in these areas. It seems to me, though,
that the more folks use Ff, the more likely they are to check out other
options -- and that has to threaten Microsoft's ubiquity.

>>What are YOU doing to tell folks about Ff? Or if you're not, why
not? 

Everything I can. Folks who have me help set up their [Windows]
computers get Ff, no discussion. I just tell them that if they want my
help, they need to reduce security issues to the minimum -- and
besides, Ff is more fun.

>>Are you using Ff as a springboard to other open source programs? If
so, which ones?

I tried using Gimp, managed to download it but couldn't get it
installed. I think that's the key, really -- it has to be at least
*relatively* easy to figure out, so folks like me can manage it.
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #74 of 110: Gail Williams (gail) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:32
    
The early passion was so intersting.  I went to Online Community 
Summit, (run by Jim Cashel of ForumOne and Online Community Reports), 
and one of the presentors said in his bossy "teacher voice" that we all 
should be using Firefox, only.  I thought "that's audacious."  But as 
a Netscape/Mozilla person, it was the next step for me anyway.   

Greasemonkey got me, though. Once you are using the RSS bookmarking, 
and have added the Greasmonkey capability, your other browsers 
look ...broken.  
 
Begin able to use FireFox to bookmark the home page at Salon.com and get
a lovely little pull-down bookmark that gives all the current stories as
headline links lets me see what I might want to read.

The Flickr community is huge on using RSS and on community invention -- so
when I started seeing all the references to Greasemonkey and special
plugins I got interested... and then the tipping point was the 
geotagging of pictures.  I only do it for a few images, but I love the 
concept.  So for that large, social group who posts images often 
and makes contacts with other photographers, suddenly there is a 
cool trick to do, and people are telling one another to do it.  Driving 
practical toybuilding is a wonderful way to get people to try things.

Here's the geotagging thing, and a explantion of what it is:
http://www.geobloggers.com/   Try putting in latitude and longitude, or a
zipcode, and you may find photos take nearby by all kinds of people.

And a sample of a geotagged image from mine:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gail/19450769/
(I see a greasemonkeyed -- that is, not staff designed --  button on 
my Flickr pages for adding a geotag next to the regular add tags 
link!  The Flickr staff didn't do that, but you can bet they are 
learning and thinking as people play.)

(So I think that IT staffers figured out this was fun to play with and
then wanted everyone in their company to be in FireFox so they could use
it themselves for fun.  I think that's more motivating than simply being
better than the old familiar (for many) IE.) 
  
inkwell.vue.247 : Scott Granneman, "DON'T CLICK ON THE BLUE E!"
permalink #75 of 110: Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Fri 24 Jun 05 15:58
    
S*L*J*O - I'm curious (not critical): why aren't you using tabs? No
interest, or you don't need it, or you think it's silly, or you like
lots of windows everywhere :), or what? I'm interested, since Ff has
really trumpeted tabs as a feature, so much so that MSFT is responding
(finally!) by adding tabs to IE.

Thanks!
  

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