Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 17:21
>>. . . MSFT is responding (finally!) by adding tabs to IE . . . Whoa! News! I can't imagine not using tabs.
Michael C. Berch (mcb) Fri 24 Jun 05 19:11
Hmmm. I've never been a tabs person. Tried it in both Safari and Firefox, and didn't like it. I have multiple overlapping (often cascading) browser windows, sharing the desktop with 1 or 2 Terminal windows, a Mail window, and any other app I have running. (This is on a Mac, of course.) Tabs seem to be very important to people (mostly from the Windows world, I guess) who use full-screen browser windows. Otherwise switching contexts would be much more difficult. It's weird how full-screen (maximized) windows got very popular on Windows but not Macs.
Chuck Charlton (chuck) Fri 24 Jun 05 20:00
I don't know where that old nickname followed me here from, but this is me. As for why I don't use tabs, I've kept my bookmarks on a web page for many years now, so that I can get at them from any computer, any library, any hotel, any friend's house, etc. So I have a great collection already. The thing about tabs is, nobody has ever been able to tell me *why* they are good. There are tab proselytizers, for sure. But I don't get it. So, is there a tutorial somewhere that explains just what the advantages are? A tab.faq? I have a weekend off work, and I might consider spending a little time studying how tabs will change my life.
Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 20:15
My browser does not take up the entire screen and I'm a tab freek. I very often have two or more browser things going and love switching back and forth easily. Also, with many windows the one I want gets lost but with tabs I just look at one line to find what I want.
beneath the blue suburban skies (aud) Fri 24 Jun 05 20:21
I couldn't live without tabs ever again either. I do exactly what sbmontana does - a lot of people rely on me for their basic pc support, and they all have to use FF. No discussion.
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Fri 24 Jun 05 21:02
A brief detour from tabs -- I just switched to Mac. My new iBook came on Wednesday. It's got 512 mb RAM, nice big hard drive -- and Firefox has crashed repeatedly. ??
Andrew Alden (alden) Fri 24 Jun 05 21:46
The trouble with tabs is, you can't switch between windows with Alt+Tab; you have to use the mouse.
Public persona (jmcarlin) Fri 24 Jun 05 22:06
Firefox uses 'control'-'tab' to switch tabs.
Jef Poskanzer (jef) Fri 24 Jun 05 22:49
Ooo, I did not know that.
Autumn Storhaug (autumn) Sat 25 Jun 05 06:24
I use Ctrl-T to create a new tab, Ctrl-W to close a tab, Ctrl-PgUp or Ctrl- PgDn to move from one tab to another.
J Matisse Enzer (matisse) Sat 25 Jun 05 08:31
Tabs-r-great :-) I like them because all my browser pages are in one window, so it's easier and faster toi switch between them - with separate windows I "lose" windowes behind other windows. I didn't know aboutr control-tab either!
Sharon Brogan (sbmontana) Sat 25 Jun 05 08:33
Also, my "home" page is about eight different sites. I love that.
Michael Rosenthal (michaelr) Sat 25 Jun 05 09:37
I cannot figure out how to delete old search terms from the drop-down list that appears when I enter letters in google. I think that this is a Firefox and not a Google issue; because in IE I could simple click delete on an item in the drop-down and it would disappear from the list thereafter.
Tom Howard (tom) Sat 25 Jun 05 11:36
Ooo, I knew the Ctrl-tab, like the Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn.
Andrew Alden (alden) Sat 25 Jun 05 13:46
Ctrl-Tab is a two-handed stroke, unlike Alt-Tab, but it's good that there's some sort of keyboard shortcut.
J Matisse Enzer (matisse) Sat 25 Jun 05 14:20
On my keyoard I can do it with one hand.
Yaki Beja (simon-says) Sat 25 Jun 05 15:25
You can also use CTRL+n where 'n' is the number of the tab you want to go to directly.
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 21:47
Sharon Brogan, you're right about Ff making it easy for your home page to actually be several sites. For those of you who don't know what Sharon is talking about, I blogged about that a while back at http://opensource.weblogsinc.com/entry/1234000613033538/. It's a wonderful trick, & based on what I've read, the new tabs feature in IE doesn't do it at all.
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 21:50
Yaki Beja, I customized my tabs so that numbers appear, making it even easier to use Ctrl+#. I use the instructions given at http://boxofchocolates.ca/archives/2004/09/17/numbered-tabs-for-firefox, but I see that there is now an extension which does all the hard work for you. Being a lazy good-fer-nothin', I'd probably use that extension, which you can find at http://www.boxofchocolates.ca/archives/2005/01/30/numbered-tabs-extension. Firefox & innovation: two great tastes that taste great together!
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 21:55
Michael Rosenthal, I've often wished that Ff had the same feature as IE in that regard. I like being able to just press Delete & remove an entry. Unfortunately, Ff doesn't have that feature. Perhaps someone knows of an extension? In the meantime, I believe that deleting the info that Ff has saved will take care of that. Granted, you're burning down the forest to remove a tree, but it does work. In Options (or Preferences), go to Privacy & press Clear next to Saved Form Information. For the Address Bar drop down list, press Clear next to History. Does that help?
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 21:59
Sharon Brogan, re: your Ff crashes on your new Mac. Are you using Ff 1.0.4? Have you installed any extensions? Plugins? To test what the problem is, create a new Ff profile & use that. If Ff stops crashing, then it's something you installed, probably a poorly-coded extension. If Ff crashes even in a new, virgin profile, then you had a bad install of Ff. Re-download, & re-install. I cover creating a new profile in detail in my book; if you don't have it, then I recommend MozillaZine's Knowledge Base article at http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_Manager. It'll tell you what you need to know to make a new profile. I've had crashes before too, btw, & the Profile Manager has saved my bacon. It's a wonderful feature!
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 22:07
Chuck Charlton, I cover tabs in depth in my book. If you want to know more about why tabs are so great, you could start there. :) MozillaZine has a really good page on tabs & their uses at http://kb.mozillazine.org/Wordsmiths/Tabs_Overview. Folks in this discussion have covered several of the cool things you can do with tabs, like use fewer windows. For me, I like to group tabs inside different windows, which reduces clutter. I have one window open with several tabs for one topic, and another window open with several tabs on another topic, and a 3rd window open with tabs for things I'm writing (blog, web site, class notes, etc.). Other uses for tabs: * bookmark multiple tabs, & then when you select a bookmark, all the tabs open up (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Bookmark_multiple_tabs & http://kb.mozillazine.org/Bookmark_or_save_multiple_tabs) * mouse tips for tabs (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Mouse_Tips#Tabs): my fave - right-click on a link to open it in a background tab. * keyboard tips for tabs (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keyboard_shortcuts#Tabs) * change how your tabs look (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Change_the_style_of_tab_markers) - it's advanced, but still cool * oodles of extensions for Ff tabs (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?application=firefox&categor y=Tabbed%20Browsing) I hope that this gets you going!
Scott Granneman (scottgranneman) Sat 25 Jun 05 22:25
Gail Williams, I love love LOVE Greasemonkey! For those of you who don't know what Greasemonkey is (& I always want to call it GreaseMinkey, in honor of Inspector Cleaseau), it basically does nothing on its own. Instead, it provides a framework for Ff that enables people to write scripts that change specific web pages on the fly. It sounds kind of weird until you do it, & then it makes a lot more sense. For instance, let's say you're visiting Site ABC, & you get annoyed that the web designer set the width of the page display at 500 pixels, which looks really narrow on your screen. Let's assume that lots of folks are annoyed by that, including someone who can write a Gm script. So this person writes a Gm script & makes it available to fix the 500 pixel limit, & instead set the width of the page to the width of your browser window. You install the script, & the next time you visit ABC, Gm notices that you're on ABC, sees the script you've installed for ABC, & causes the page to display not at 500 pixels in width, but instead at the width of your browser window. Now images 100s and 100s of scripts being written for sites all over the Web. Scripts that fix minor annoyances, or even add new featues, for Google, Amazon.com, Yahoo!, Netflix, IMDB, Slashdot, & on & on. All free, all easily downloadable & installable. NOW do you see why Gail & I are so excited about Gm? Wanna try it yourself? 1. Install Gm at https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=748. 2. Go to the Gm Script Archive at http://dunck.us/collab/GreaseMonkeyUserScripts & download a couple of scripts (load the script in your browser window, then go to Tools > Install User Script). For instance, go visit http://www.paulgraham.com, look at one of his essays, note how dang narrow his text is, install the Gm script at http://sharedobject.org/greasemonkey/paulgraham.user.js, go back to http://www.paulgraham.com, look at that same essay, & note how that his text is much wider now. 3. Install other Gm scripts for the sites that annoy you. Is that not cool or what? Want to make your own scripts? Why then, check out http://diveintogreasemonkey.org, which will tell you all that you need to know. If you know CSS & HTML, you MUST check out Platypus after you get familiar with Gm. Basically, Platypus is a WYSIWYG editor/creator for Gm scripts. Let that sink in for a minute. Yup. I've used it, and it rocked me like a hurricane. So yes, Gail, I too have a license for that minkey!
Loren Rosen (loren-rosen) Mon 27 Jun 05 09:22
About the future: what is -- or should be -- in the next major release of Firefox? And beyond that?
from RICHARD BANKS (tnf) Tue 28 Jun 05 18:50
Richard Banks writes: Hello. I routinely use Firefox for browsing the Web. Nevertheless, I am often forced to use IE due to a variety of plug-in issues that arise and due to missing features I consider "basic". For example, IE has a File/Send Page as Email function that has no obvious corollary in Firefox. Also, the daily download in Salon's AudioFile column does not work with Firefox whenever the file must be downloaded from iTunes. There any number of similar gotcha's I have run into over the last year. I expect, at this point, you might be thinking "well, have you installed Firefox release x.y.z?" Well, no. If there are important upgrades then the browser itself might as well alert me, because I'm not one to run out an download new releases all the time just in case it might fix whatever quirk I've just discovered. I will probably continue to use Firefox, because my needs are relatively simple. But it has some pretty annoying limits. Thank you. Richard Banks
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