The WELL: inkwell.vue.274: Jeff Angus, "Management by Baseball"

#103: Cupido, Ergo Denego (robertflink) Wed 21 Jun 06 05:46

Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:46:00 PDT

Great First Law. Must be something about them there humans.

Thanks for steering me to Hardin's work. I notice some reference to Max Weber including his essay "Politics as a vocation" which is on line. Per my reading, Weber would have liked MBB.

I'll read more Hardin and comment. [Read entire topic]

#102: Jeff Angus (jeff-angus) Tue 20 Jun 06 08:46

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:46:00 PDT

Credo said: *Any speculation as to why people want to escape accountability? ++++

Sure...almost a universal gravitational field. W/o accountability you can pretty much do what you feel like -- if it works out, one can take credit, and if it doesn't one can point the finger at someone else.

Angus' First Law of Organisational Dynamics says "All human systems tend to be self-amlifying", and org with accountbaility sluffers will tend to attract mroe such types and the behavior will be become more pronounced over time.

I suspect you know The Tragedy of the Commons (If not, link below) http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html

Most organizations operate as Commons. And as Hardin says "Conscience Is Self-Eliminating", and synonyms to "Conscience" are "Accountability" or "Integrity". Krazy-gluing accountability is the fix.

If you haven't read Hardin's system view before, or haven't thought about it as an analogue for organization behavior, I think it's worth playing with. If you do, please share your thoughts. [Read entire topic]

#101: Credo, Ergo Dubito (robertflink) Thu 15 Jun 06 20:54

Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:54:00 PDT

Makes sense. Any speculation as to why people want to escape accountability? Perhaps it is, in part, a realization that the gap between perception and reality is sufficient in many situations so as to make politics and attendant spin more "real" than reality. [Read entire topic]

#100: Jeff Angus (jeff-angus) Thu 15 Jun 06 17:55

Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:55:00 PDT

TO REPEAT AND FLESH OUT THE response...Cogito, Ergo Spero said: Some of the MBB points and experience reminds me of the problems getting industry to adopt modern concepts of quality especially as it applies to management, particularly upper management. Perhaps this applies to Demings idea of profound knowledge among others as well. Any comments on these or other such antecedents? +++++++++

The classic legs of the Deming stance, rigorous obervation/monitoring/analysis before implementation, acceptance of change as an imperative, systemic thinking, stochastic/flexible approaches rather than cast-in-concrete autonomic solutions, are all standards in baseball.

Deming probably didn't get it from baseball, but baseball was doing it before he got his first college degree.

The diff between Deming's effort to diffuse these (baseball-like) practices to industrial organizations, esecpially publically-traded ones (as opposed to owner-operated) is the management, especially upper management, sluffs accountability, **AND CAN**. In baseball, you can't fluff the record, there IS no Enron in baseball, because the box score, the instant replays, the year-to-date stats, all make transparent who is doing what.

Yes, upper management in most publically-traded companies reject quality because they can "do without it" and it leaves them less subject to accountability. In baseball, no one (outside of Kansas City for the last 5 years) can escape the reality of quotidian success or failure.

In the end, though, we have to try for quality, and they way to push things in that direction, as I posted here earlier, is to crazy-glue accountability in every day in every way one can.

Make sense? What do you think? [Read entire topic]

#99: Stephanie Vardavas (vard) Thu 15 Jun 06 13:57

Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:57:00 PDT

We'll look for you tomorrow afternoon or evening, jeff! Safe travels. [Read entire topic]

#98: Jeff Angus (jeff-angus) Wed 14 Jun 06 22:19

Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:19:00 PDT

It's all done with mirrors asked: Do you find that non-baseball people are able to get your metaphors clearly, even though they don't have a good grasp of the game? +++++++++

Many do and some don't. Some of the stories are mostly people stories. Some rest on adequate knowledge of the game's rhythms.

I think all business books with real points leave some people behind, and I suspect this one does, too, as hard as a tried to make it flat out entertaining as well as useful. [Read entire topic]

#97: Jeff Angus (jeff-angus) Wed 14 Jun 06 22:16

Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:16:00 PDT

Cogito, Ergo Spero said: Some of the MBB points and experience reminds me of the problems getting industry to adopt modern concepts of quality especially as it applies to management, particularly upper management. Perhaps this applies to Demings idea of profound knowledge among others as well. Any comments on these or other such antecedents? +++++++++

Deming is in the book (well, he was mostly cut for space reasons, but there's still a little bit of him).

I need to address your point in detail and I'm about to go to the airport. I hope to answer your important question midday tomorrow. But quality (vs the usual quantity obsession) is one of the vital areas where baseball proves without doubt what works in a competitive system. [Read entire topic]

#96: Jeff Angus (jeff-angus) Wed 14 Jun 06 22:12

Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:12:00 PDT

CYNTHIA ASKED Jeff, what about promotions? Are you doing a reading tour? I think I asked you above if you will be passing through "a bookstore near [us]" anytime soon. +++

Monday, June 19, 7:30 p.m. Black Oak in Berkeley on Shattuck It would be great if some of the participants here came to have dialogue or lurkers came to ask questions (or lurk). If you don't know Black Oak, it is the finest kind of bookstore with the finest staff I know if.

CYNTHIA ALSO ASKED: Does your publisher "get" this book and have a good handle on how to promote it? +++++++++

I'd say "yes, pretty much so". The structure of the business itself makes it hard to promote a book that draws from two diverse audience groups. I think they've done a good job, a great job if you consider the resources the staff have had to work with. Collins and I disagree on one point (and remember this is their business, not mine); it seems like they feel a lot of a book's success depends on luck, that there's only so much a publisher or author can do and that much of it rests in the hands of The Fates. While I acknowledge fate plays a role (imagine if one's book was due to hit shelves 9/12/01), I believe what Branch Rickey believed: "Luck is the residue of design"...that either way, we have to behave as though our fate is almost all in our hands. [Read entire topic]

#95: Cogito, Ergo Spero (robertflink) Wed 14 Jun 06 17:47

Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:47:00 PDT

Some of the MBB points and experience reminds me of the problems getting industry to adopt modern concepts of quality especially as it applies to management, particularly upper management. Perhaps this applies to Demings idea of profound knowledge among others as well. Any comments on these or other such antecedents?

The baseball analogy, as far as I can appreciate it from the discussion, seems very powerful indeed. [Read entire topic]

#94: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Wed 14 Jun 06 14:18

Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:18:00 PDT

It's hard to believe that it's been two weeks since you first joined us, Jeff. This has been a great discussion and we thank you and Stephanie for being our guests.

Though our virtual spotlight has turned to a new interview, that doesn't mean this one has to stop. The topic will remain open indefinitely for further comments. Please stick around if you can, and if you can't, at least tell us where we can see you in person at a reading! [Read entire topic]