The WELL: inkwell.vue.315: Laura Pappano and Eileen McDonagh, "Playing With the Boys: Why Separate is Not Equal in Sports"

#66: put me in coach, I'm ready to play (watadoo) Thu 27 Dec 07 08:02

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:02:00 PST

Girls play in hockey with the boys up to and through the pee wee and bantam levels where checking is allowed and it can get quite rough out on the ice. The girls in general give as well as they get and it is usually quite equal as skating skill and size are the determining factor in checking for the most part. The ability to accelerate into your target to give a solid check or by speed or speed and direction change mitigate or avoid a check is the whole game, so the girls really aren't at a disadvantage unless they let themselves be so; meaning if they try to avoid contact or act timid they become targets -- as do the boys should they shy away from the physical aspect of the game.

Girls do have the option of playing in girl leagues which don't have checking if they wish so it really is an inclusive sport, as players at any level can find their comfort zone. [Read entire topic]

#65: Lisa Everitt (lisa) Mon 24 Dec 07 15:08

Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:08:00 PST

The girl who's featured in the Post story is on her way to State if she keeps wrestling as well as she has been. JADP. [Read entire topic]

#64: Credo, Ergo Dubito (robertflink) Mon 24 Dec 07 05:19

Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:19:00 PST

>Over the long haul it would matter, though.<

To those organizing sports and perhaps to spectators. This is one of the examples of values differing substantially at difference scales and perspectives. One of the legacies of freedom and individualism is the idea that the state should be protecting and advancing the rights of the individual over and against the values of larger systems and scales. The subject book draws from this, in my mind, recent and estimable turn in human affairs.

It is understandable that those responsible for organizing society on larger scales tend to do so to enhance values at related scales. I'm sure that we all can point to many examples where these large scale values have been pursued at the expense of the individual.

BTW, I understand from some past exposure to amateur wrestling that brains are a significant factor and that men have wrestled competitively at advanced ages even as their upper body strength declined somewhat. [Read entire topic]

#63: uber-muso hipster hyperbole (pjm) Sun 23 Dec 07 23:09

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:09:00 PST

And the reason they do weight classes is to try to keep physical characteristics as a factor as close to even as possible. David gets Goliath once in awhile but usually he doesn't. I think that for girls to wrestle boys they would have to do a trial and error for awhile to see how weight matches up. [Read entire topic]

#62: uber-muso hipster hyperbole (pjm) Sun 23 Dec 07 23:06

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:06:00 PST

Over the long haul it would matter, though. [Read entire topic]

#61: Janet Hess (gertiestn) Sun 23 Dec 07 19:44

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:44:00 PST

"The boy, will, on average, be stronger."

And in a match, "on average" may not count for much. [Read entire topic]

#60: Sharon Lynne Fisher (slf) Sun 23 Dec 07 15:26

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:26:00 PST

I would suggest that a girl who chooses to wrestle is not likely to be considered 'average' and that while I'm not a wrestler, I assume it's more than just a matter of strength. [Read entire topic]

#59: uber-muso hipster hyperbole (pjm) Sun 23 Dec 07 14:32

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:32:00 PST

"a 140-pound girl can wrestle against a 140-pound person of either gender"

I would disagree. Body composition is different, even when they are both in top shape. The boy, will, on average, be stronger. [Read entire topic]

#58: Lisa Everitt (lisa) Sun 23 Dec 07 12:04

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:04:00 PST

Today's Denver Post had a front-page takeout on girl wrestlers. Wrestling is a big high school sport in Colorado, and it's a sport in which a lot of the arguments against female participation are irrelevant -- a 140-pound girl can wrestle against a 140-pound person of either gender.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7789118

I did notice that the wrestler boy who loses to the wrestler girl in the lede is NOT identified, which I think buys into the premise that (as the story says) "if you lose to a girl, your life is over." [Read entire topic]

#57: Cupido, Ergo Denego (robertflink) Sun 23 Dec 07 06:28

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:28:00 PST

>Sports can -- and should -- be a tool for gender equality.<

This appears to require the equal use of steriods if current "excellence" in sports is any indication. [Read entire topic]