Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sat 16 Aug 08 05:38
Yeah, but I'm sure you know that "spending more time with my family" is a Washington cliche to the point where it's become pretty much a joke. Variants include "...resigned so he could spend more time with his defense attorneys," etc.
Linda Castellani (castle) Sat 16 Aug 08 15:46
Not just Washington. Also common among CEO's and the like.
Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 17 Aug 08 07:42
Ah. As a Washingtonian I generally take no notice of what you peasants in the rest of the world do. ;-)
Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 17 Aug 08 10:02
I'm a Washingtonian, too. We're too busy fishing for salmon, hiking our own Olympian heights, and enjoying the Seahawks to take notice of what you lobbiticians within the beltway are doing to give us a bad name!!!
Mark McDonough (mcdee) Sun 17 Aug 08 10:16
I'd rather be your kinda Washingtonian, actually. I don't like big cities and am not particularly fond of the East Coast in general, but a man's gotta eat.
Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Sun 17 Aug 08 11:34
"a man's gotta eat": Chinook salmon on a bed of Walla Walla Sweet Onions, Dungeness crab along side fresh Yakima Valley asparagus, washed down with a bottle of Mount Baker chardonnay, followed by delicious Wenatchee apple pie, or, if you prefer, Cascade Farms blackberry pie. Too much sugar? Rainier Cherries straight up, then. Unfortunately, we don't have Mission Accomplished Humble Pie, Oval Office Cigars, George the Greater Broccoli, local supply-side jelly beans, or Billy Beer... Forgive the topic drift (but Karl Rove does look well fed, back there in D.C.).
Linda Castellani (castle) Sun 17 Aug 08 15:03
All I want to know is: what time is dinner?
Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Mon 18 Aug 08 07:57
You'll want to replace that Mount Baker chardonnay with the chardonnay from Forgeron Cellars in Walla Walla, but still.
Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Mon 18 Aug 08 15:16
Paul, Dubya has been painted as one of the most puppet-like presidents in history. The master puppeteers have identified at different times as Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove, especially. Of course, only Cheney remains of the three. Rumsfeld and Rove only left after they were perceived of as having become serious political liabilities. How much do you think George W. Bush has been his own man, and how would you weigh the level of influence of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, or anyone else, in being the steerage/brains/Machiavellian force behind Dubya's decisions/course-of-action as a President.
"The Best for Your Health!" (rik) Mon 18 Aug 08 15:21
Now THERE's a question.
David Wilson (dlwilson) Tue 19 Aug 08 11:37
That's right! Could you add to it, Dubya's relationship with and the influence of his father George HW?
Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 19 Aug 08 11:44
...but such assessment would involve Freud more than Machiavelli.
Paul Alexander (reporter1) Tue 19 Aug 08 20:57
I know that much has been made about Bush being little more than a puppet, but I have to disagree with that assessment. I think that it was beneficial for Bush to have someone like Rove, who was -- and still is -- willing to take the fall for his boss. But it has always been my feeling, from following Bush and people close to him through the years, that Bush was the one in control. I think he proved that last summer when he told Rove it was time for him to go. In the end Rove was not really Bush's brain; he was what he was -- a political adviser who could easily been gotten rid of. Ultimately, the credit or (more likely) criticism of the Bush administration will be placed squarely on not Rove (and others) but Bush, which is the way it should be.
Scott MacFarlane (s-macfarlane) Tue 19 Aug 08 21:17
Hmmm. So stupid is as stupid does... That's a relief, in a perverse, quasi-democratic way.
My free and simple demeanor set everybody at ease. (pdl) Wed 20 Aug 08 06:47
Paul--if it's possible to divulge, what projects are you working on now? What articles or books are coming out in the near future? Are you done with Rove as a subject or will you focus on him again at some point?
Jack King (gjk) Wed 20 Aug 08 07:02
I've been loving this book, but the only future one on Rove I would care to see would be "The Trial of Karl Rove."
Lisa Harris (lrph) Wed 20 Aug 08 12:46
Thank you Paul and Patrick for a wonderful two weeks. Now it is time for us to turn our attention to a new topic. You are all welcome to continue here for as long as you'd like.
My free and simple demeanor set everybody at ease. (pdl) Wed 20 Aug 08 14:55
Paul--thanks for spending some time here discussing Machiavelli's Shadow!
Tom Howard (tom) Thu 21 Aug 08 09:26
Paul, the book is really great -- and frightening. My earlier question that must've gotten overlooked is how exactly do you go on with seeing so closely these machinations (especially coming up on this election and Rove's control of the $250 million war chest? You and Seymour Hersh? The truly most enlightening thing about your book is how many egregious mistakes and errors Rove has made in his career. His "evil" seems to be so much luck.
John Payne (satyr) Fri 22 Aug 08 08:53
He's about as subtle as a coyote, which is to say somewhat so, but not very.
Percy (weltschmertz) Tue 25 Nov 08 13:56
How people overreact. Ten years ago, I remember the same kind of bile being poured on the head of James Carville who was to the Clintons what Rove is - or was - to the Bush administration. Then, Carville was a gigantic figure whose ominous malevolence tainted every aspect of the Clinton years or so said commetators on the right; today, he's just a screw-faced media pundit much in the same way that Rove will undoubtedly be in a few years time.
Mark McDonough (mcdee) Tue 25 Nov 08 14:10
I don't doubt that Rove will surface in some new context, but he'll still be reviled as a piece of shit.
Percy (weltschmertz) Tue 25 Nov 08 18:30
Really? Does the Left still have a hard on for Poindexter and Ollie North? Or the Right for Carville? Not so much. Time gives perspective. Thirty years from now your grandkids will say to you; 'But what did Mr. Rove actually do?'. And you'll say; 'He helped the monster Bush win his first election and he revealed a brave CIA bureaucrat was, ummm, a CIA bureaucrat'. And your grandkids will say: 'Oh look, five o'clock. Well, we gotta go now to beat the traffic'. You'll cry out: 'No! Wait! Bush is the antichrist!' and then Nurse Ratchet will have to knock you out with 300 cc of duifluourescipam, and it will all seem about as important to you then as it does to most of us now.
Mark McDonough (mcdee) Tue 25 Nov 08 22:59
Yeah, I still think Ollie North is a blowhard faux patriot asshole, and Poindexter is a lying slime, and Nixon is a crook -- a dead crook, but still. What's your point, or are you just the troll du jour?
Lisa Harris (lrph) Wed 26 Nov 08 06:19
I think you hit the nail on the head, mark.
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