inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #251 of 295: Daniel (dfowlkes) Wed 17 Sep 08 03:40
    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #252 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 03:52
    
No, the way it works (and now that I think about it, it might be more
effective as a class action) is that once all those people see how they
look in judgment, they'll be lining up to get their faces frozen. 
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #253 of 295: Daniel (dfowlkes) Wed 17 Sep 08 03:56
    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #254 of 295: Daniel (dfowlkes) Wed 17 Sep 08 03:56
    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #255 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 04:02
    
The second possibility hadn't occurred to me, but I suppose some
might.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #256 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 06:38
    
Do I read <246> aright?  Do you blame the economy on parenting?  How
is this not selling fear to people who are vulnerable to threat?
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #257 of 295: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 17 Sep 08 06:59
    
You're reading it wrong.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #258 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 07:03
    
I can see that.  Proportionately, then, what have we to fear?  That
people in their twenties are experiencing failed job expectations?
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #259 of 295: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Wed 17 Sep 08 07:09
    
Well, I'm not sure how much I'd fear that.  I figure the world of work
will wise people up PDQ.  
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #260 of 295: Hara Estroff Marano (haramarano) Wed 17 Sep 08 07:12
    
jennifer, thanks for your generous offer but i decline to bear the
brunt of your cumulative rage.

no, i am simply saying that there is a new and potentially costly
effect manifesting itself in the workplace; i didn't invent it. oh, i
get it... by using "economy," a very big concept and a loaded word this
minute as AIG and lehman brothers collapse, you try to suggest that i
am blaming the implosion of the mortgage market and lehman brothers and
everyone's stock portfolio and god only knows what else on parenting
practices. patently absurd. as mark said, you're just reading it all
wrong. 

yes, my hope, stated  here in earlier posts and in the book, is that
the real world will wise these people up before too long. that is the
hope. 
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #261 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 07:13
    
That's what usually happens.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #262 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Wed 17 Sep 08 07:22
    
Costly is the point.  Of course.  It's in the title.  
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #263 of 295: Hara Estroff Marano (haramarano) Wed 17 Sep 08 10:28
    
the thing is, it's costly for everyone. for the business world,
certainly. for these kids, certainly. no one wants to see needless
suffering. these  kids didn't ask to be brought up this way. they were
put on a track at an early age and there has never really been a way of
opting out...except in a way that causes many parents total anguish.
their compliance raises a whole set of separate issues. there's no way
that any parent can prepare any kid fully for the world the kids will
inherit. not possible. but no parent in the world that i know of wants
to even contemplate that the upbringing they gave (or are giving) their
kid may have frank disadvantages...and it could have been avoided. so
there's a cost to parents. and it's a totally needless one.

i just want to share with you portions of a recent email i received:

I just completed the book. I am a physician in XXXXXXXX, Florida.
A patient of mine, who I hold in high regard and has no children, was
reading your book when it caught my attention. For the past three
years or more I have been an invasive parent. Invasive to the point
of ruining my life, my son's life and our family dynamics which
ultimately contributed to problems with my relationship with my wife.
Fortunately, I am a man who is dedicated to his immediate family as
well as faithful to my wife. 

As for my son, it has been very 
difficult for me to let him fail. He is now in the 8th grade at a
very good private school. I am proud to say I have not checked his
homework website once(usually did so atleast 3-4 times/day), I have
not hovered over him regarding homework, and I have not taken out my
frustration at the expense of his grades. 

My life, my work, my son are all better as a result of this change. I
come from a family of all professionals including my mom who is a
XXXXX in NY. I know a book based on facts and one on
opinions. YOUR book is the absolute best reference pertaining to what
I believe is a terrible epidemic in parenting. If everyone would be
required to read your book I feel it would not only benefit the
children but the parents, the schools and society as a whole. I
cannot emphasize to you enough how powerful and life changing your
book is. 

I have requested the headmaster, my kids teachers as well as
all of my close friends to read your book NOW. Our community is
crammed with helicopter parents who push and push their children to
excel in academics, sports, dance, drama, and social situations. It
is very clear to me how these children who ARE straight A students in
all honors courses, the best runner, the best lacrosse player, the
best dancer will ultimately crash in college, if not sooner. I see it
with many of my patient's children. 
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #264 of 295: David Adam Edelstein (davadam) Wed 17 Sep 08 12:40
    
That's a good cap to what's been a rousing discussion. Thanks very
much to Hara and Lisa for joining us for the last two weeks.

Our virtual spotlight is turning to another conversation, but that
doesn't mean this one has to end; Hara, you're welcome to stick around
as long as you're interested.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #265 of 295: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 17 Sep 08 12:42
    
Thanks for spending the last two weeks with us, Hara.  I can't believe 
it's flown by already.  

You're more than welcome to continue here, or to explore some of the 
members areas such as the <parenting.> conference or <media.> perhaps, 
though we all know how busy authors are during book tours!

Thanks to all the participants for a lot of good insights, counterpoints 
and questions!
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #266 of 295: Gail Williams (gail) Wed 17 Sep 08 12:43
    
Look at that, David saying the same thing at almost exactly the same time.
Slippery!  Thanks for coordinating this discussion, David.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #267 of 295: Lisa Harris (lrph) Wed 17 Sep 08 13:02
    
You're both very welcome.  My own thanks to Hara for reminding me what good
parenting is all about - raising competent and happy adults - and some good
ideas about how to accompllish that.  I, for one, hope you stick around The
WELL.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #268 of 295: Hara Estroff Marano (haramarano) Wed 17 Sep 08 13:45
    
Thanks to all of you. It's been swell hanging out with such an
informed and intelligent bunch for the past couple of weeks.

I do plan to check in on the conversation, and to check out others on
the well.

Thanks for giving me the forum.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #269 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Thu 18 Sep 08 00:29
    <scribbled>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #270 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Thu 18 Sep 08 00:36
    
Realistic expectations are essential to good parenting.  Some children
may not be able to achieve ordinary competence or, heaven forfend,
even happiness as adults.  The following is for those who struggle with
this:


"The really important kind of freedom involves attention and awareness
and discipline, and being able truly to care about other people and to
sacrifice for them over and over in myriad petty, unsexy ways every
day.

"That is real freedom. That is being educated, and understanding how
to think. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default setting, the
rat race, the constant gnawing sense of having had, and lost, some
infinite thing."

   --David Foster Wallace

From: <http://www.marginalia.org/dfw_kenyon_commencement.html>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #271 of 295: Daniel (dfowlkes) Thu 18 Sep 08 02:49
    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #272 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Thu 18 Sep 08 03:04
    
No one rises to unrealistic expectations, either.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #273 of 295: Jennifer Simon (nomis-refinnej) Thu 18 Sep 08 05:57
    
Actually, try setting them aside, and pay attention.
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #274 of 295: Lisa Harris (lrph) Thu 18 Sep 08 09:06
    <scribbled by lrph Thu 18 Sep 08 09:06>
  
inkwell.vue.335 : Hara Estroff Marano, A Nation of Wimps
permalink #275 of 295: Daniel (dfowlkes) Thu 18 Sep 08 11:46
    <scribbled by dfowlkes Tue 3 Jul 12 10:14>
  

More...



Members: Enter the conference to participate

Subscribe to an RSS 2.0 feed of new responses in this topic RSS feed of new responses

 
   Join Us
 
Home | Learn About | Conferences | Member Pages | Mail | Store | Services & Help | Password | Join Us