The WELL: inkwell.vue.350: Mikal Gilmore, Stories Done

#69: Mikal Gilmore (mikalgilmore) Mon 20 Apr 09 02:14

Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:14:00 PDT

I meant to add that if anybody wants to reach me directly, my e-mail is:

mikalgilmore@me.com [Read entire topic]

#68: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Sun 19 Apr 09 00:36

Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:36:00 PDT

And my thanks to you as well, Mikal! [Read entire topic]

#67: David B Dawson (dbdawson54) Thu 16 Apr 09 19:26

Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:26:00 PDT

Thanks for the thoughtful answer to my rambling question, Mikal. As I expected (and hoped), you summed up my rambling feelings very well. "Our responses might seem naive later, or to others, but those epiphanies can change us in lasting and utterly valid ways."

Absolutely -- very well put.

Good luck to you. I enjoyed this conversation a great deal, and am likewise enjoying your book. Again, thanks!

David in Memphis [Read entire topic]

#66: what another day it takes: (oilers1972) Thu 16 Apr 09 19:25

Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:25:00 PDT

<59>: Well, it WAS the music and other cultural expressions, and it was and remains real.

After all, Madison Avenue had to have something to co-opt in the first place. [Read entire topic]

#65: Mikal Gilmore (mikalgilmore) Thu 16 Apr 09 18:57

Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:57:00 PDT

This is where I get to say thanks to all of you, and to the kind folks here at the Well--and especially to Ed Ward--for inviting me in here to have these conversations. I've enjoyed it; it's more satisfying than a lot of the activities that surround a book's publications.

Now, let's spend time with David Gans. He is a very cool guy and he's been a real help and inspiration to me over the years. [Read entire topic]

#64: Mikal Gilmore (mikalgilmore) Thu 16 Apr 09 18:54

Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:54:00 PDT

Looking back at what I typed here last night, I realize I maybe summarized my thoughts on the subject.

The advantage of commodified dissent is that it reaches a lot of people. It helps change some of them, helps spread some ideas and notions. If its aim is to subvert the ideology it's working within--such as capitalism--well, good luck. The Beatles aimed for that with Apple and soon opted for a hardline capitalist ethos. But that doesn't devalue what they did to help spread some ideas and great music.

Others--the Grateful Dead among them--were better at setting up alternative systems. Even so, their main achievement was in constructing closed loops of their own. Almost everybody involved still went to the banks and made investments, though hopefully investments in non-toxic interests.

It's true that the bohemian moves from the adversarial to the hegemonic. That can bother me, of course, but to be honest, not really that much. Bohemia and revolutions aren't static, and in our system they will indeed be co-opted. Sometimes things happen in increments, and sometimes not at all, they start then sag, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate the impetus we felt due to them. It also doesn't mean that the pleasures any of us felt over Sgt. Pepper or the Clash, or any of it, were illusory (even if Pepper in fact felt illusory to the Beatles themselves). Our responses might seem naive later, or to others, but those epiphanies can change us in lasting and utterly valid ways. And co-opted or not, the opposition that popular music helped signify in the 1960s had an effect that sill pisses off a lot of people.

The single best example of commodifying change that I've seen in my lifetime happened last year, when Obama used some extremely smart and effective methods to sell his campaign. And I believe we're all better off for buying what he was selling. [Read entire topic]

#63: Mikal Gilmore (mikalgilmore) Thu 16 Apr 09 02:16

Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:16:00 PDT

David, I'll happily come back later today and give you a reply. I've been caught up with something else all day, and it's a little late right now. I'll just quickly say that I admire much of Thomas Frank's work, but I flat disagree with him regarding some of his Conquest of Cool and Commodify Your Dissent arguments. Co-opted or not, a lot of great stuff has come from what was co-opted. After all, authors and publishing get co-opted to, as do political leaders. Examine and question it all, of course -- there's tremendous value in that. But throwing the baby out with the bath water just disregards too much pleasure and revelation as far as I'm concerned. Again, real stuff did happen, and not at small risk. Commodified dissent is still dissent and can still help change things.

I'll be back later. [Read entire topic]

#62: Ed Ward (captward) Wed 15 Apr 09 15:26

Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:26:00 PDT

'Sokay, I'd kind of like to see Mikal's response to that myself... [Read entire topic]

#61: David B Dawson (dbdawson54) Wed 15 Apr 09 15:02

Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:02:00 PDT

Ack. Sorry to post a Tolstoy-length question right here at the end. I'll get my self in gear in the future.... [Read entire topic]

#60: (dana) Wed 15 Apr 09 12:28

Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:28:00 PDT

Thanks for joining us, Mikal. We begin a new discussion today, but you're welcome to continue here as long as you like. [Read entire topic]