Scott Underwood (esau) Mon 14 Jun 10 22:04
Also, the documentary "Food, Inc.", which features both Pollan and Schlosser. Some of the scenes of factory farming aren't for the faint of heart, but that's the point: the further we've gotten removed from the reality of farm life and food production, the less we know. And it really does seem to be how They -- Tyson, Monsanto, et al. -- want it. Joel Salatin of the ultraorganic Polyface Farms, about which Pollan devotes a large chunk of "Omnivore's Dilemma," has a passionate and articulate appearance in the documentary, and much more in the extras of the DVD. <http://www.foodincmovie.com>
. (wickett) Tue 15 Jun 10 08:48
Thank you, Darya, for the explanation, which is entirely satisfactory. Nothing against a penchant! Thank you particularly for the recommended books, and also to Scott, for recommending the film. Although I hate cruelty, I'm not squeamish, and really do want to know. I recognize that I'm an oddity, having been raised in the 1950s while this switch to processed foods was finding its legs. Due to the ages of my parents, their devotion to fresh, tasty real food, and their skill as cooks, I was not introduced to processed food, certainly not to junk items, and never even to school lunches. Well, by your definition, I ate some processed food: there was flour, baking powder, and such. My mother had a grain mill, but didn't always use it. So, personally, I'm an outlier, wondering why anyone would make or sell such items as food or befoul their body and insult their taste buds by ingesting it. I look very forward to my education!
paralyzed by a question like that (debunix) Tue 15 Jun 10 09:04
One good reason is that some of the junk food does taste GOOD. All that research and science and focus groups have actually produced stuff that tastes more like cherries than cherries, cheesier than most cheeses, more buttery than butter, and combine sugar and fat and salt seductively. When done 'well', it really is delicious. And, it's easily available and cheap. I do make crackers that I definitely prefer over anything I can buy*, but it's very disappointing to spend the time, fill the cookie jar with them, and then moments later, it's empty again. *<http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/Saltines.html>
Gail Williams (gail) Tue 15 Jun 10 10:18
therese (therese) Tue 15 Jun 10 10:42
Those look great, Diane. I checked out your recipe page; I'm going to try my hand at your Apple-Pepper-Cheddar rolls.
David Gans (tnf) Tue 15 Jun 10 11:39
> I consider all bread or ANYTHING made with flour or sugar to be processed > food Some may think of this as a controversial statement, but I see it as an ex- cellent example of the sort of clarity I get from reading you, Darya. I am in the process of changing my lifestyle to include less bread - it's always been a go-to snack for me in the afternoon. I've been deleting sugar from my life gradually for years, and now I have to add other carbs to my elimination campaign. Your ability to distill these issues into a few simple rules is what makes <http://www.summertomato.com> such a valuable resource. Thank you, from the bottom of my refurbished heart.
paralyzed by a question like that (debunix) Tue 15 Jun 10 11:50
Thinking about that is one reason why I eat a lot less pasta than I used to. Things that I once would have eaten over pasta, or soups that would have been finished with pasta, I am now more likely to finish by putting over or adding a cooked whole grain. The pasta e fagioli I was preparing this weekend, for example, became beans with buckwheat instead. And I adore my lentil-spelt soup now as much or more than the german lentil soup that inspired it. <http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/LentilSpeltSoup.html>
David Gans (tnf) Tue 15 Jun 10 12:41
Nice, thanks! We are consuming more quinoa around here. I love it!
For Rosetti, wombats held a peculiar fascination (loris) Tue 15 Jun 10 21:30
wrt response 53 above from debunix, i think the taste issue is huge. to me, most conventionally-grown produce -tastes- like wood pulp. so why would one want to voluntarily eat something that tastes like wet cardboard? i remember observing when i lived in nyc in the 80s, how people after work would stop by the salad bars then popping up at the corner korean grocery stores --- and dumping what looked like 1/2 cup of (to me) revolting salad dressing on what they bought. and i knew it was in part because the produce had no taste --- in contrast to say, the market-garden tomatoes i could get on the weekends out on shelter island. i have been buying organic since the 80s, and local and seasonal as that has gotten easier to find. and when i step out of my ecotopian bubble, and say, taste an apple bought at the local grocery store in exurban new jersey --- it tastes like wet paper towels. why -would- someone -want- to eat that? the injunction to eat healthy --- well, if it doesnt taste good, who can stick with it? i was on jury duty a year ago, and a few times was stuck with the county cafeteria. the produce was dismal --- so, bad me, i ate my once/year bag of m+ms. because i wanted something that actually had some taste. and the tasteless + midly sour oranges for sale wouldnt cut it.
. (wickett) Wed 16 Jun 10 09:55
The kitty litter I use is made from corn and it's great! Smells good, too. It's the only corn item I have in the house.
Darya Pino (daryapino) Wed 16 Jun 10 12:44
@wickett For a second there I thought you were admitting to eating kitty litter ;) @loris I think you absolutely nailed it with your comment. What really changed it for me was the first time I went to the farmers market and tried all the produce. I thought lettuce was lettuce, an apple an apple. Boy was I in for a shock (and treat). It changed my life. @debunix I've been doing exactly the same thing. I eat pasta occasionally, but not as a staple. My latest favorite pasta substitute is beans. A couple years ago I discovered the heirloom beans from Rancho Gordo and fell in love. The are AMAZING! I made a puttanesca using chickpeas instead of pasta and it was to die for. Great recipes btw :) @tnf You're too sweet!!!! xoxox
David Gans (tnf) Wed 16 Jun 10 13:08
> I thought lettuce was lettuce, an apple an apple. Per Michael Pollan, the grocery-industrial complex has labored to make that a fact by drastically limiting the number of varieties cultivated and marketed in this country. How many people are aware of how many wonderful varieties of potatoes and tomatoes there are in this world, for example? And Pollan says there is basically one species of broccoli in the main stream. etc. > beans instead of pasta Maybe <reet> will share the amazing broccoli rabe and cannellini beans recipe she uses. Not sure where it came from, but we love this dish!
those Andropovian bongs (rik) Wed 16 Jun 10 13:42
Much appreciated if she does. That sounds great.
. (wickett) Wed 16 Jun 10 14:43
I, too, am nuts for cannellini beans. Just made a stew with the beans and mustard greens and ham; also containers of cannellini bean-pumpkin-and kale soup are stashed in the freezer. Pumpkin really gives them zing. debunix, thanks for the photo and recipe for your crackers! They look and sound absolutely delicious...albeit time-consuming. I just checked our oven and, yes, it makes it to 550 Fahrenheit (I bake my bread at 500), so someday soon I'll try it. Agree about pasta. It's too dull to bother to eat, never mind that it just doesn't satisfy or satiate. Agree about "standard" varieties. Even though it's late in the season, I just planted some golden beets. Also, we had been confused about a citrus tree in our backyard. it was introduced to us as a lime. The fruits taste limey, but are a bright, beautiful yellow. We're closing in on a variety of...lime.
Darya Pino (daryapino) Wed 16 Jun 10 19:09
Funny all the talk about cannellini beans. I just had some with chorizo, squid and peppers from our local Bi-Rite market. Yum! I think handmade pastas are often worth eating. It's just the dry store bought stuff that I don't bother with. @wickett are the limes sweet? Sweet limes are often yellow.
Marika Wertheimer (peony) Wed 16 Jun 10 20:09
As I understand it limes when ripe are actually yellow but they sell them green in grocery stores for differentiation from lemons. Of course really ripe limes are sweeter, they are ripe.
jelly fish challenged (reet) Wed 16 Jun 10 20:20
>>>> Agree about pasta. It's too dull to bother to eat, never mind that it just doesn't satisfy or satiate. Nooooooo! Says this ITALIAN GIRL. Life without pasta isn't worth it. To me. That said, we've cut back the fequency of pasta focused dinners. The broccoli rabe/canellini recipe includes pasta, BTW.
those Andropovian bongs (rik) Wed 16 Jun 10 22:23
I was given a ripe lime to eat once, as a joke. It looked just like a tangerine, and the skin even came away easily like one. But when you bit into a segment, it was a lime, for sure.
Idea Hamster On Speed (randomize27) Thu 17 Jun 10 06:09
Ripe limes look like tangerines? I never knew that.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 17 Jun 10 10:02
Nor did I. Oh, I forgot that the broccoli rabe and cannellini beans recipe also includes orecchiette.
jelly fish challenged (reet) Thu 17 Jun 10 10:04
Over time I have cut the orecchiette amount in half.
. (wickett) Thu 17 Jun 10 10:09
Enjoy your pasta! I have never made pasta myself, but, yes, the difference between homemade and store-bought dry sticks is remarkable. Aha, the limes were green; when ripe they are yellow and *sweet*! They are also softer than green ones and far more juicy. Thank you! We also have a clementine tree (as best I could identify it), and they are very peelable. Not so the limes. This year we went a bit overboard planting mustard greens. I almost need a scythe to cut them down! Inspired by this topic, I'm cooking them al dente and popping into the freezer, so we won't tire of them now and will enjoy them when we need our green veggie vitamins in winter. Again, inspired by this topic, I'm going to take my crutches out of the closet and brave a farmer's market instead of relying on the Berkeley Bowl. Crowds, standing, and sun make it hard for me, but perhaps I can manage it.
Darya Pino (daryapino) Thu 17 Jun 10 11:00
I'm wasn't talking about regular limes that are just riper, but a different variety of limes called sweet limes. That is what it sounds like you have. They're great in cocktails!! As for fresh pasta, I don't make it myself but there are wonderful Italian delis that sell fresh pasta that's probably much better than I can ever make. If you're in San Francisco I recommend the handkercheif pasta with pesto al Genovese at Farina in the Mission. It's to die for.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 17 Jun 10 12:14
We got some great fresh pasta from the popup general store last week. It was delicious fresh! Instructions were to dry the unused pasta for later use. We'll see if it's as wonderful in that form.
person of crevice (obizuth) Thu 17 Jun 10 13:17
it isn't as simple as "fresh pasta good, dried pasta bad." italians use different pastas for different things. no italian knowledgable about food would say that dried is inherently inferior to fresh. (rule of thumb, tho there are always exceptions: fresh with oil- or cream-based sauces; dried with tomato or meat-centric sauces.) <http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/noodles-pasta-and-grains/dry-pasta-vs-fresh -pasta-whats-the-difference-047888> <http://www.mangiabenepasta.com/types.html> <http://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/shopping-storing/food/dried-vs-fresh-pa sta-10000001609408/> (first link has the most detail.)
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