Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Ed Ward (captward) Tue 30 Aug 11 08:17
Nitpicking comment here: the word you're looking for is "psychotomimetic," a word which really disturbed early researchers. Thus, in a correspondence with Aldous Huxley, who preferred the word "phanerothyme," Humprhy Osmond coined the word "psychedelic": Huxley: "To make this trivial world sublime, take half a gram of phanerothyme" Osmond in response: "To fathom Hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic." Osmond was a practicing psychiatrist and knew the difference between what he was experiencing and psychosis.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 30 Aug 11 10:20
Psychotomimetic and psychomimetic are synonyms, so either one will do. I think knowing the difference is an important aspect of the psychomimetic experience vs the psychotic episode.
Ed Ward (captward) Tue 30 Aug 11 10:23
Psychotomimetic implies mimicking psychosis. Psychomimetic means mimicking mental processes or something. Dunno where you got the synonym thing, but at any rate the former is no longer used.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Tue 30 Aug 11 10:49
I googled the terms.
Mark K. McDon (mcdee) Tue 30 Aug 11 17:40
<scribbled by mcdee Tue 30 Aug 11 18:05>
Tuppy Glossop (mcdee) Tue 30 Aug 11 18:05
Everything lives on in the the Google!
(fom) Tue 30 Aug 11 21:07
Oh, you googled the terms, that settles it! I'm with capt on this; the word is psychotomimetic. Anyway -- I am curious. With all this: - classical Greek/Roman pagan traditions - a little bit of old testament judaism, plus jewish mysticism e.g. kabbalah (my last name comes from town called Dulcigno, now in Montenegro, and that was a place where a messiah figure named Shabbatai Sevi was exiled for his messianic/kabbalah movement in Ottoman Thessaloniki/Salonica) - witchcraft/wicca medieval burning times - i find Wiccan practitioners are sympathetic to my line of thinking - freemasonry - revival of Eleusis other pagan practice, plus cross pollenation with Islamic/Sufi strains and mysticism like the dervishes - Greek Orthodox, Athonite monasticism - hippie pagan and witchcraft revivalism; later techno-pagans ...did you explore actual shamanism? As in traditional native American, Siberian, etc etc, shamans? Or the modern teachers of "core shamanism" such as Michael Harner and Leslie Gray? From my studies I got the idea that shamanism is much more generic and universal than the esoteric and religious things you enumerate, and much much more down to earth.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 31 Aug 11 06:01
"Oh, you googled the terms, that settles it!" I figured you could look for yourself, but if you want some of the explicit references: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/psychomimetic - lists psychotomimetic as a synoonym for psychomimetic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotomimetic - "Psychotomimetic drugs (also referred to as psychomimetic drugs) affect thought, perception, and mood..." Lewis' Dictionary of Toxicology at http://books.google.com/books?id=caTqdbD7j4AC&pg=PA865&lpg=PA865&dq=psychomime tic+vs+psychotomimetic&source=bl&ots=uK0rDfZNxj&sig=JkxADSAU0BBTw3GGni62anXOo_ k&hl=en&ei=nyxeTsvnLYqRgQegu7X5AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0 CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false: "psychomimetic agent. See psychotomimetic drug." (Also shows the term psychosomimetic as an evident synonym.) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychomimetic and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychotomimetic http://universalium.academic.ru/180431/psychomimetic http://en.factolex.com/Psychomimetic http://www.wordnik.com/words/psychomimetic
Ed Ward (captward) Wed 31 Aug 11 06:19
There is also a living tradition of female shamans in Korea even now, existing side-by-side with the local flavor of Buddhism and the overwhelming Christianity. The shamanism is hereditary, carried through the grandmother, skipping generations, as I remember.
Tuppy Glossop (mcdee) Wed 31 Aug 11 07:21
It would be interesting to know how many cultures still have living shamanistic traditions. I suspect that we of Western European descent get a pretty warped picture, since our culture was pretty much burned over by the witch hysteria.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 31 Aug 11 08:19
Does neoshamanism suggest a possible revival? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoshamanism (Or is it just a variation of "new age" thinking?)
*%* (jewel) Wed 31 Aug 11 09:10
From what I have seen the core principles of the shamanic path - the enlightenment of the soul - resonate through much of rave, wiccan, and new age subcultures which are HUGE in the U.S. for sure, and I would not be surprised if they were all also flourishing worldwide. It seems there are more people than ever (even proportionally) seeking out higher truths. The self-help spirituality group is in on that too. It seems to me we are deep in an enormous revival stemming from the 60's psychedelic explosion and that it continues to grow. There are more psychoactive drugs out there than ever - more being invented constantly. The one person I know heavily involved in rave culture is also involved in a spiritual community that developed from that group - my guess is this is not atypical. What I am seeing is a coming together of the traditions. More and more people are integrating shamanic practices from around the globe, creating their own practice. That is certainly how I approached my own spiritual journey back in the 70's - through the integration of all the existing practices I'd studied. After Campbell, it is like the cat is out of the bag that is is one hero with a thousand faces.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 31 Aug 11 14:09
Where's a good place to see this happening? I.e., are there some specific web references for authentic neoshamanist groups or events?
Tuppy Glossop (mcdee) Wed 31 Aug 11 14:51
I seem to recall that there's a US group dedicated to shamanistic practices with ayahuasca. A brief Google search turns up some *very* colorful websites!
*%* (jewel) Wed 31 Aug 11 14:54
One place that came to mind is the Temple of Yes in Santa Cruz. Here is a link about their pipe ceremony, for instance: http://templeofyes.org/services/pipeceremony.html Another example is this schedule from this year's Pantheacon: https://pantheacon.com/files/PantheaCon_2011_Schedule-v0201.pdf Here is a wiki entry on PLUR, which is related to spiritual practices at raves, as is indicated by the connection of the term to the use of psychoactive drugs specifically to discover unknown aspects of themselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR And the entire canon of self help/new age/spirituality books is chock full of what I would call quasineoshamanic "stuff" that may not include drugs but often include breathing, visualization, and meditation to reach altered states and borrows from all manner of indigenous shamanic practices. I'd even put "The Secret" into this catagory - manifestation through prayer. I am getting a bit off track from the book, but responding to the question of shamanic practices surviving, reviving, etc. http://www.eastwest.com/ (generic new age book reference)
*%* (jewel) Wed 31 Aug 11 14:55
Slip. You can spend forever reading about these countless groups and gurus on the web (and I have).
Ted Newcomb (tcn) Wed 31 Aug 11 16:00
check out your local Evolver groups at http://www.evolver.net
Ted Newcomb (tcn) Wed 31 Aug 11 16:00
Or zoom on over to Black Rock :)
*%* (jewel) Wed 31 Aug 11 17:46
Was going to say!!
Donald Peter Dulchinos (dpd) Wed 31 Aug 11 19:58
jewel, thanks for those posts. when i was shopping the manuscript around, i had one publisher (Body Mind Spirit specialist, which was new sales genre when New Age became a joke) who said they would publish it if i would be explicit about non-drug ways of attaining spiritual states and actually put the emphasis there. they sort of missed the point of the book, but I did agree there were and are many non-drug paths. i guess i still come back to the dramatic efficacy of botanical or chemical agents, at least in the role of awakening one's awareness of higher states. Of course, almost everyone now understands you can't live there.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 1 Sep 11 05:26
The next Inkwell.vue conversation is starting, so this one can end (or continue, if there's more to say, and I think that might be the case). The Inkwell hosts want to thank Don Dulchinos and all the others who have contributed to the discussion so far.
Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Thu 1 Sep 11 15:49
My copy of this just arrived from the publisher, so I may be back with comments once I've done some reading, if anyone's still around.
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Thu 1 Sep 11 19:15
Looking forward to it!
Donald Peter Dulchinos (dpd) Thu 1 Sep 11 19:55
for you Jennifer, i'll stick around. Thanks Jon for thinking of me, and everyone who contributed your thoughts here. here's an interesting link for a bonus: http://homepage.mac.com/dodecatheon/22F.html
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 2 Sep 11 11:41
Thanks, Don! Interesting link!
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