Undo Influence (mnemonic) Sun 15 Aug 99 10:37
Last time I checked, Rimm worked for a company called Dialogics, which specializes in computer-telephony products. Rimm is a salesperson for the company, whose products are critical to ... phone-sex services, among others.
this bag is not a toy (vard) Mon 16 Aug 99 12:46
That's tremendous. Mike, what advice would you give an intelligent educator or parent who is trying to do the right thing by the children s/he cares about? What about the adult mentors of high school students? And what advice would you give directly to the young people?
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Tue 17 Aug 99 08:44
Well, I'm not sure I have enough experience as a parent to feel comfortable giving advice to other parents (and I'm not sure I'll ever have enough, to be frank). But I can say that the focus for me and for Ariel's mother has been less on trying to shape what our child sees than it has on trying to shape what she *values*. It's a big, diverse, pluralistic world out there, and it's hubristic to imagine that we that we can control to any great degree how much of that world's speech our children hear. What we can do with a somewhat greater degree of confidence is communicate our values to our children, so that they disapprove of the kinds of things that we disapprove of. Hence the emphasis (for us at least) on values rather than censorship (of the Internet or anything else). Beyond that, I think there is very little I can say to parents (or mentors) that's very comforting, because the fact is that children have wills of their own, and lives of their own, and even so even the best-supervised children often don't turn out the way we'd expect them to. The best we can do is love them and teach them what we think is important -- if we do that right, the odds are that they'll be strong enough to handle whatever they encounter in the larger world, including the larger world of the Net. As far as the everpresent fear of strangers on the Internet goes, I think kids who receive and follow the advice with regard to strangers that today's adults got 20, 30, and 40 years ago will be fine. To "young people" I'd say "Be patient with your parents. They may turn out to know something, even if they can't configure TCP/IP on the family Gateway."
John Henry, the (steeldrv) Tue 17 Aug 99 11:07
Shape the kid's values? Good luck. (Although it is surprising how well my kids are turning out now that they are adults.)
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Tue 17 Aug 99 11:57
Note my qualified statements with regard to shaping kids' values.
gazorninblat (dwaite) Tue 17 Aug 99 14:04
what kind of validation can you give to Gore's comments recently in regards to internet voters? Do you cover any of these kind of revelations in your book?
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Tue 17 Aug 99 15:53
I've missed Gore's comments -- can you reprise them here for me?
gazorninblat (dwaite) Wed 18 Aug 99 09:22
Gore noted that he wanted to see a new era of voter registration and internet voting. He see this as a new chioce for a faster paced electorate. He feels that there are safeguards that can be used for fraud detection that will allow national, state, county and state elcection to be done in the privacy of one's home, freeing up the time it takes to register (registration up to the day of the election) and take the hassle out of going to the voting booth. He noted that he feels this will increase the voting electorate considerably, giving more Americans the ability and time to vote. (I think that about sums it up)
Gail Williams (gail) Wed 18 Aug 99 16:37
Hmmm. Fraud is still a question even with vote-by-snail-mail, which is less easy to duplicate and stuff ballot boxes than electronic communications should be. Maybe a pgp signature... yet another argument for stronger encription than the feds have wanted to offer.
Harry Claude Cat (silly) Wed 18 Aug 99 21:28
<scribbled by silly Fri 11 Aug 00 09:28>
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Wed 18 Aug 99 22:49
dwaite, I don't really deal with electronic voting at all in CYBER RIGHTS. What Gore says sounds right -- electronic voting will certainly increase the percentage of eligible voters who vote. But I see no particular reason to limit alternative voting methods to the Internet -- how about the telephone system, which reaches more people? I mean, if I can order movie tickets with a credit card over the phone, I can probably vote by phone (without a credit card).
gazorninblat (dwaite) Thu 19 Aug 99 06:40
Good point... He address those less fortunate, in as much mentioning efforts to get all public libraires online and offer the services to those who are without computers. Then again, as soon as I mention public libriaries, I think about potentials for local communities to censor and block access where others have no access.
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Thu 19 Aug 99 07:37
I wonder whether Internet access in libraries will do much to revivify the notion of the library as a civic center. I hope it does. But if that were my project, I'd spend the most money on enabling libraries to serve coffee and snacks, like Border's and Barnes and Noble.
Gail Williams (gail) Thu 19 Aug 99 10:43
Maybe extend their hours like a good bookstore, too. Say, Mike, here's something I wonder about, and which I know you won't shy away from. Reading Cyber Rights, I am struck by your description of various online hangouts, and their role in informing and galvanizing you and others. I'm sure you also have had that slightly obsessive experience of having a good long romp though your conference list and then wondered where the evening or the afternoon vanished to. I know for many people, online hangouts are almost too tempting, and more of a distraction than a career aid, but you seen to have maintained a balance. Does it feel that way to you? How did your online relationshihps contribute to your work in online civil liberties, and did they ever get in the way? Oh... and what was that Austin BBS scene really like?
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Fri 20 Aug 99 05:30
Well, I'm not sure that I've maintained quite the balance I should have, Gail. I think I got more book-reading done before joining the WELL. As to my online experiences informing my civil-liberties work, well, they've been immensely helpful. One sees all the ways in which freedom of speech can play out in cyberspace, and one has many opportunities to learn to be tolerant of differing viewpoints. (I'm putting this in the nicest possible way.) I know I've been tempted into immoderate speech in the past, and I've seen the same thing happen to others, and that's been instructive. I've seen places like the WELL demonstrate both the best and the worst aspects of small communities, and I think the best and worst may be intimately connected. And understanding the dynamics and needs of virtual communities has shaped my thinking of what the proper legal and constitutional frameworks of cyberspace should be. (I'm the person who insisted that the term "virtual communities" appear in the final Supreme Court brief for the plaintiffs in Reno v. ACLU. Or perhaps "insisted" is not the right word -- I begged and pleaded and got my way.) Talking about legal and constitutional issues on the WELL has kept me sharp and improved my ability to think about them and write about them, I feel. And occasionally one gets a powerful inspiration -- it was a posting by <dkline> that got me thinking about how to seize the pro-parent rhetoric away from the censors in the fight against the Communications Decency Act. Austin BBSs were a great preparation for the WELL. There were dozens of active BBSs in Austin during the 1980s, and even though individual ones were small, many of us hung out on more than one. A BBS and its postings and membership might be about the size of a WELL conference -- all the BBSs together added up to a pretty thriving community. I used to log into BBSs in one tiny window of my Mac Plus, all the while working on legal outlines and notes in another window. (You could do this in the days prior to Windows and Mac System 7 by using Desk Accessory programs.) It was good for me to have frequent contact with non-law-students.
this bag is not a toy (vard) Fri 20 Aug 99 13:09
Was the writing process enjoyable for you or was it more like a lengthy labored childbirth? Do you think you have one or more future books in you?
Mike Godwin (mnemonic) Sat 21 Aug 99 16:45
<scribbled by mnemonic Sat 21 Aug 99 16:49>
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Sat 21 Aug 99 16:49
Some parts of the book came easily, and others came hard. Possibly the single easiest long stretch of writing had to do with day-by-day account of the Rimm scandal. I wrote 10 or 12 thousand words in three days, and they appear only slightly edited in the book. Dealing with the CDA fight was the hardest -- I rewrote that chapter several times, and at one point it was actually three chapters. Condensing it and keeping it current (we won the Supreme Court victory between the first and revised drafts of CYBER RIGHTS) was very taxing, and I ultimately had to sacrifice a passage that I had really poured my heart and soul into, and that I thought drew the connection between the WELL, the Rimm scandal, and the fight against the CDA very well. But it didn't fit, and ultimately I agreed with my editor that it needed to go. I think I have more books in me, but want to make sure I pick the right project. A couple of the possible projects are novels -- one a thriller involving a lawyer who's rebuilding his life after the murder of his wife, and the other a comic/sf story about the Mafia and UFO aliens facing off in the Nevada desert in the late 1940s.
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Sun 22 Aug 99 15:54
Ariel (my daughter) has just discovered a Hello Kitty site --<http://www.groovygames.com/kitty>. I know this because she just sent me a custom postcard from the site.
Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Mon 23 Aug 99 11:51
> the other a comic/sf story about the Mafia and UFO aliens facing off > in the Nevada desert in the late 1940s. That sounds like something I'd love to read, Mike. Can you say more about the plot line?
Undo Influence (mnemonic) Mon 23 Aug 99 20:05
Well, it occurred to me a few months back that the first wave of UFOs appeared in the sky over the American Southwest in the late 1940s, right when Las Vegas and Reno were being staked out by organized crime as homes for legalized gambling. And I found myself wondering what a turf war between mobsters and ETs would look like and whether the crash at Roswell, NM, might have been caused by gang warfare. I'm still working this out.
poorly-contained perioxide accident waiting to happen (castle) Mon 23 Aug 99 20:14
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
David Gans (tnf) Mon 23 Aug 99 22:45
Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Tue 24 Aug 99 00:55
Sounds like *Men in Black* meets *Analyze This*. Write up a treatment, and we'll call my people.
Ron Hogan (grifter) Tue 24 Aug 99 00:58
Nah. Do the wacky SF novel first. We need more wacky SF novels. Then make 'em pay for the film rights.
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