inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #126 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 13 Jul 00 15:52
    
wjames, dont be silly. of course i am not saying that
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #127 of 150: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 16:59
    

Sorry to misread you, then.  But I have to say, talking about
Florida swampland and the like, you kind of do leave that
impression.  How do you distinguish between the high-tech/
Internet projects which are genuinely useful and worthwhile,
and those which probably aren't?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #128 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 13 Jul 00 17:05
    
how do you distinguish between a company which exists mostly for
the culture of flip and flee, and one which actually makes/does
something useful that takes advantage of the technology?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #129 of 150: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 17:28
    



That's the thing:  I think it's fairly difficult to pin
down, especially when the company first starts, and the
founders have to throw out that "aggregated/disintermediated/
granular" New Economy wank rhetoric which makes VC's
nipples get hard.

So how about three specific examples:  Amazon, Priceline,
and EBay.  It really seems to me that all three of them do
something useful which benefits their consumers, and arguably,
have some overall positive social/economic benefit.  Would you
agree, or do you think they fit under flip and flee?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #130 of 150: The salon stopped responding (rocket) Thu 13 Jul 00 18:17
    
This is timely: how do you feel about the upcoming Webzine 2000?

Seems to me that scene is still vital, especially with the recent and
enormous surge in weblogs, otherwise known as "me-zines."

There's a tremendous amount of work being put into projects that clearly
will never make money.  Everyone know this, and keeps building.

Is this just unimportant, unchecked ego-fulfillment?  Are these kids
"cyberselfish"?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #131 of 150: Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Thu 13 Jul 00 20:22
    
 Priceline is one of the ultimate embodiments of industry greed, IMO.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #132 of 150: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 22:53
    

Yes, and it's also a great way for a grandmother to get a
decent price for a plane trip to visit her grandkids.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #133 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 14 Jul 00 09:26
    
final posting: i am heading off to jump on a plane back to sfo and then head
up to a reading in sonoma tonight, so by the time i get back online, i
believe my official turn here at inkwell.vue conducting a one-woman defense
against the dark arts will be over.

so two very brief responses:

<rocket> i honestly dont understand what the big deal about webzines/weblogs
is. zines have existed for decades; since the web began there have been
webzines and (even more strange to me) people who have posted their diaries
on the web. there's nothing new here, if people like to do it, that's fine;
as with my aversion to memoir, it's not a genre that much interests me but
then most folks like strawberry yogurt and i dont. no blame. everyone has to
have a hobby. what this could possibly have to do with tdb, i dont really
know.

wjames, sorry i just dont have the patience to get into making distinctions
about which kinds of high-tech i think has value, which doesnt, and which is
a gray area. i get -paid- to write, this troll is way off topic of the
subject of tdb, and it's like those discussions of pornography and art: much
depends on the eye of the beholder.

that being said, it's been real, folks. roger/wilco/over/out.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #134 of 150: Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 14 Jul 00 10:44
    

Thank you, Pauline and Owen, for a very lively and interesting
interview!  And thanks to all of you who participated for making it so!

You are welcome to continue, but it sounds like Pauline does not plan to
return.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #135 of 150: The salon stopped responding (rocket) Fri 14 Jul 00 11:40
    
"what this could possibly have to do with tdb, i dont really
 know."

!!!
She must not be thinking clearly today.  Or if she is, "tbd" cannot
poosibly be worth the paper it's printed on.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #136 of 150: The salon stopped responding (rocket) Fri 14 Jul 00 11:47
    
I guess I just have no idea what Cyberselfish is supposed to be about.
<jonl>, you are reading it: what's the discconect here?  Does Borsook not
understand the flip side of capitalism on the web is things like bud.com,
indeed that these home pages predate the bean-counters by years?

How could that not be relevant to a book about greedy techno-libs running
amok on the Web?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #137 of 150: Owen Thomas (dither) Fri 14 Jul 00 19:19
    
Thanks, everyone, for joining us. (<rocket>, if you need a copy
of the book, I'll be glad to loan you mine.)
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #138 of 150: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 14 Jul 00 20:14
    
Does bud.com need capitalism? *8-)
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #139 of 150: better run thru the jungle (sd) Tue 18 Jul 00 07:03
    
Great fun, thanks everyone!
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #140 of 150: Elise Matthesen (lioness) Mon 24 Jul 00 11:53
    
Afternote: Cyberselfish has been included in Thog's Masterclass (Dept. of
Non-fiction), in Ansible (July 2000 issue) from Dave Langford.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #141 of 150: With catlike tread (sumac) Tue 25 Jul 00 09:37
    
Reviewed -- very favorably -- in today's NYT.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #142 of 150: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 25 Jul 00 11:42
    

Here's the URL:

 http://www.nytimes.com/library/books/072500borsook-book-review.html
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #143 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 08:33
    
lioness, what is
thog's masterclass and what is ansible?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #144 of 150: Elise Matthesen (lioness) Wed 26 Jul 00 10:55
    
Ansible is a zine put out by Dave Langford, author of interesting stuff
including material collected in THE SILENCE OF THE LANGFORD and LET'S HEAR
IT FOR THE DEAF MAN.

Thog's Masterclass.... is hard to describe. Being included in Thog's
Masterclass is a bit like being braised with faint clams, or something.  I
can't find my copy of the July Ansible, or I could quote the passage they
cited. Think of it as akin to the honor of being included in IT WAS A DARK
AND STORMY NIGHT. I know one writer who will never forget having been
included; she refers to it often, in moments of stress and revisions.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #145 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 11:24
    
is such a zine easily findable? is it at scifi stores?
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #146 of 150: Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Wed 26 Jul 00 11:30
    
 Ansible is distributed over the Internet.  It's archived in the 
mirrorshades conference on the Well.
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #147 of 150: Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 13:14
    
ah thanx.....
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #148 of 150: Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 26 Jul 00 18:02
    

rafeco beat me to it!
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #149 of 150: Wendy M. Grossman (wendyg) Thu 27 Jul 00 03:51
    
Langford is a sweet man.

wg
  
inkwell.vue.79 : Paulina Borsook - Cyberselfish
permalink #150 of 150: Elise Matthesen (lioness) Mon 31 Jul 00 20:20
    
He is indeed.
  



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