Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Fri 3 Dec 04 16:02
Thanks David...Gazor..you just have to assume that the effects are gruesome, and worse than Vietnam in that the puppet forces (pardon my lingo) are both less reliable--barely trained--totally vulnerable to attack by the insurgents and when they aren't, almost always suspect. We don't hear about this much from Iraq where the few reporters left are embedded with US troops but there was a story in NYTimes a few weeks ago Dexter Filkins with troops)where they came upon a group of Iraqi National Guard in Fallujah with the red and white tape on uniforms as required of loyal troops, who opened fire on the Americans. I mentioned this way back, but it has the ring of the typical, and bears repeating. But actually we are much more in the dark with Iraq than VN. Pix in papers are almost always US soldiers standing with huge weapons..same pix, little action.. Never a dead American (pretty true in VN too) and few dead Iraqis.... You don't see the war happening on the tube like you did 35 years ago. The coverage is almost totally filtered by the Pentagon who work thru bureau chiefs in DC), when in VN the Pentagon was stuck with the five o clock follies. You do better figuring it out in print, I think, and following news in British papers.
Gail Williams (gail) Fri 3 Dec 04 16:19
Just an aside, Carol, but check this out -- it's a little blog article about finding photos by soldiers in Iraq via the web: <http://www.thebishop.net/geodog/archives/2004/10/08/late_night_thoughts_on_bro wsing_the_iraq_tag_on_flickr.html> If you try surfing the Iraq tag at Flick right now, you see demonstrations on the first page, but shots from iraq just a page back. (It will change all the time, since it's based on how people choose to describe their own pictures.) Like I said, an aside, but an interesting idea of how information may be able to bypass the old kinds of controls as we get deeper and deeper into this.
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Sat 4 Dec 04 08:58
yes, like that rack of pictures of Navy Seals with Iraqi prisoners in May 2003 that was posted on the web by a navy wife from her husband's camera, and made its way to the papers today.
Gail Williams (gail) Sat 4 Dec 04 15:27
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Sat 4 Dec 04 19:02
it all comes out, or much of it one way or another, but how do you begin to get on top of it and show the war for what it is? Like maybe start with Fallujah, and say the city of 250,000 was just bombed to smithereens to remove an obstacle to the January 30 Elections?
Uncle Jax (jax) Sat 4 Dec 04 19:39
If all the doomsayers are right, no-one will require the opposition to make the case in few years. A genuine national disaster for the United States in Iraq is going to be very hard to disguise, dissemble or spin.
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Tue 7 Dec 04 15:45
what form do you think it might take?
Uncle Jax (jax) Tue 7 Dec 04 17:15
Quagmire in the mid-east and mounting death toll without any national policy objectives actually progressing towards accomplishment.
Uncle Jax (jax) Tue 7 Dec 04 22:31
The other problem I see is that the price of imperial pretentions is going to be paid in the difficulty we will encounter maintaining a Western coalition in the coming decades as China emerges as the most militarized member of the U.N. Security Council.
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Thu 9 Dec 04 11:02
But the huge problem is there's no opposition capable of standing up to the historic enormity of this collapse, announcing it, so to speak, and pointing to another direction. Everybody takes bites out of pieces of the pie--today soldiers grilling Rumsfeld over inadequate armor, which has never happened before, and Senator Byrd pointing out that the new 300 page Intelligence bill had 24 hours for the Senate to consider--and noone grasps the whole thing.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 9 Dec 04 11:21
> soldiers grilling Rumsfeld over inadequate armor, which has never happened > before The right-wing echo chamber is playing that as a "setup" by an evil minion of the liberal media.
Uncle Jax (jax) Thu 9 Dec 04 12:47
>soldiers grilling Rumsfeld over inadequate armor That's quite a metaphor :-)
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Sat 11 Dec 04 11:45
But it happened David, and that interview is getting covered everywhere from London's Financial Times to national newspapers, and is still being covered--for it contains a real story. US soldiers have taken their queries to the SecDef, and you know that thanks to email, troops have grown aware of the suits against the Pentagon's stop/loss program, the grumbling over economic issues, the awol reports from Canada, even the story about the 200,000 homeless vets, which now include some from Iraq. That last has not reached the international press but it sure reached me.
Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Thu 16 Dec 04 11:58
Regarding that question posed to Rumsfeld about the armor, someone told me something interesting. He said the full tape of the sequence shows that in between the question and the answer there's a huge roar of approval from the crowd of soldiers -- they were showing support for the question, in other words. But we didn't hear the crowd noise in any of the news reports in the U.S. If I am remembering right, my friend said he learned this from one of the British newspapers, perhaps the Guardian. I have no other support for the story other than his comments. I'd love to know for sure if it's true.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 16 Dec 04 12:17
> we didn't hear the crowd noise in any of the news reports in the U.S. We heard a bit of it in the clip they showed on "The Daily Show."
Steve Bjerklie (stevebj) Thu 16 Dec 04 12:26
Ah. Past my bedtime.
David Gans (tnf) Thu 16 Dec 04 12:52
7am rerun! Or is it 10 am on regular cable? Next morning.
David Adam Edelstein (davadam) Thu 16 Dec 04 14:39
On this page: http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/thedailyshowwithjonstewart/videos_headli nes.jhtml it's in the video called "F'd Troop". Someone smarter than me can probably provide a direct link.
David Adam Edelstein (davadam) Thu 16 Dec 04 14:39
And yes, it's beautiful to see the troops cheer the question.
Karen (kgf) Thu 16 Dec 04 20:46
(Actually, I heard it on NPR!)
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Sun 19 Dec 04 12:15
And did you hear about the reporter who urged the soldier to ask the question? As if only a reporter could come up with something like that, never somebody out there fighting.. That cheer said it all.
If gopod's on our side s/he'll stop the next war (karish) Mon 3 Jan 05 11:37
So, the next time Rumsfeld talked to the troops he answered a question planted by his own people.
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Tue 4 Jan 05 14:23
No, as it turns out the reporter just gave the soldier some wording. That question was on everybody's lips, and was as old as the war.
If gopod's on our side s/he'll stop the next war (karish) Wed 5 Jan 05 07:05
I agree, with respect to the question about armor for the HMMMVs. On his surprise Christmas trip (what a treat for the troops!) he answered much more friendly questions. Was that fortuitous or was it arranged?
Carol Brightman (carolbrightman) Tue 11 Jan 05 09:01
I didn't catch that, but it sounds like a set-up.
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