Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 13 Jul 00 15:52
wjames, dont be silly. of course i am not saying that
Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 16:59
Sorry to misread you, then. But I have to say, talking about Florida swampland and the like, you kind of do leave that impression. How do you distinguish between the high-tech/ Internet projects which are genuinely useful and worthwhile, and those which probably aren't?
Paulina Borsook (loris) Thu 13 Jul 00 17:05
how do you distinguish between a company which exists mostly for the culture of flip and flee, and one which actually makes/does something useful that takes advantage of the technology?
Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 17:28
That's the thing: I think it's fairly difficult to pin down, especially when the company first starts, and the founders have to throw out that "aggregated/disintermediated/ granular" New Economy wank rhetoric which makes VC's nipples get hard. So how about three specific examples: Amazon, Priceline, and EBay. It really seems to me that all three of them do something useful which benefits their consumers, and arguably, have some overall positive social/economic benefit. Would you agree, or do you think they fit under flip and flee?
The salon stopped responding (rocket) Thu 13 Jul 00 18:17
This is timely: how do you feel about the upcoming Webzine 2000? Seems to me that scene is still vital, especially with the recent and enormous surge in weblogs, otherwise known as "me-zines." There's a tremendous amount of work being put into projects that clearly will never make money. Everyone know this, and keeps building. Is this just unimportant, unchecked ego-fulfillment? Are these kids "cyberselfish"?
Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Thu 13 Jul 00 20:22
Priceline is one of the ultimate embodiments of industry greed, IMO.
Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Thu 13 Jul 00 22:53
Yes, and it's also a great way for a grandmother to get a decent price for a plane trip to visit her grandkids.
Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 14 Jul 00 09:26
final posting: i am heading off to jump on a plane back to sfo and then head up to a reading in sonoma tonight, so by the time i get back online, i believe my official turn here at inkwell.vue conducting a one-woman defense against the dark arts will be over. so two very brief responses: <rocket> i honestly dont understand what the big deal about webzines/weblogs is. zines have existed for decades; since the web began there have been webzines and (even more strange to me) people who have posted their diaries on the web. there's nothing new here, if people like to do it, that's fine; as with my aversion to memoir, it's not a genre that much interests me but then most folks like strawberry yogurt and i dont. no blame. everyone has to have a hobby. what this could possibly have to do with tdb, i dont really know. wjames, sorry i just dont have the patience to get into making distinctions about which kinds of high-tech i think has value, which doesnt, and which is a gray area. i get -paid- to write, this troll is way off topic of the subject of tdb, and it's like those discussions of pornography and art: much depends on the eye of the beholder. that being said, it's been real, folks. roger/wilco/over/out.
Linda Castellani (castle) Fri 14 Jul 00 10:44
Thank you, Pauline and Owen, for a very lively and interesting interview! And thanks to all of you who participated for making it so! You are welcome to continue, but it sounds like Pauline does not plan to return.
The salon stopped responding (rocket) Fri 14 Jul 00 11:40
"what this could possibly have to do with tdb, i dont really know." !!! She must not be thinking clearly today. Or if she is, "tbd" cannot poosibly be worth the paper it's printed on.
The salon stopped responding (rocket) Fri 14 Jul 00 11:47
I guess I just have no idea what Cyberselfish is supposed to be about. <jonl>, you are reading it: what's the discconect here? Does Borsook not understand the flip side of capitalism on the web is things like bud.com, indeed that these home pages predate the bean-counters by years? How could that not be relevant to a book about greedy techno-libs running amok on the Web?
Owen Thomas (dither) Fri 14 Jul 00 19:19
Thanks, everyone, for joining us. (<rocket>, if you need a copy of the book, I'll be glad to loan you mine.)
Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Fri 14 Jul 00 20:14
Does bud.com need capitalism? *8-)
better run thru the jungle (sd) Tue 18 Jul 00 07:03
Great fun, thanks everyone!
Elise Matthesen (lioness) Mon 24 Jul 00 11:53
Afternote: Cyberselfish has been included in Thog's Masterclass (Dept. of Non-fiction), in Ansible (July 2000 issue) from Dave Langford.
With catlike tread (sumac) Tue 25 Jul 00 09:37
Reviewed -- very favorably -- in today's NYT.
Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 25 Jul 00 11:42
Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 08:33
lioness, what is thog's masterclass and what is ansible?
Elise Matthesen (lioness) Wed 26 Jul 00 10:55
Ansible is a zine put out by Dave Langford, author of interesting stuff including material collected in THE SILENCE OF THE LANGFORD and LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE DEAF MAN. Thog's Masterclass.... is hard to describe. Being included in Thog's Masterclass is a bit like being braised with faint clams, or something. I can't find my copy of the July Ansible, or I could quote the passage they cited. Think of it as akin to the honor of being included in IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT. I know one writer who will never forget having been included; she refers to it often, in moments of stress and revisions.
Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 11:24
is such a zine easily findable? is it at scifi stores?
Rafe Colburn (rafeco) Wed 26 Jul 00 11:30
Ansible is distributed over the Internet. It's archived in the mirrorshades conference on the Well.
Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 26 Jul 00 13:14
Linda Castellani (castle) Wed 26 Jul 00 18:02
rafeco beat me to it!
Wendy M. Grossman (wendyg) Thu 27 Jul 00 03:51
Langford is a sweet man. wg
Elise Matthesen (lioness) Mon 31 Jul 00 20:20
He is indeed.
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